Thread: Hammer A3 31 Thicky/Jointer - a good machine, but buyer beware of certain aspects

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

THE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE:
A big disappointment, and so very easily overcome with a very minor effort by the Aussie agent, was trying to get the damn thing running. It was supplied without a plug, and the power lead is 500mm long - won't even reach the power point. Neither of these points were made known to me beforehand. The missing plug is no big deal, as I'm quite capable of wiring that up (long experience - don't get excited). The short lead is a different story though. To put a longer one on (say the common length of two metres) would cost the manufacturer (or the agent) about $4. It is too complex to wire into the machine a longer cable so this resulted in having to purchase 2 plugs, a socket and two metres of flex for a total of $72 (20A stuff is very expensive). Had the power lead been two metres long in the first place it would have only been $16.60 for a plug. If you require a sparky to do this for you then I would say you could add a bare minimum of $80 (making it a 2 metre extension lead for $150). It may be a requirement to have a Licenced Sparky to make this lead, depending on your particular State Jurisdiction.

I completely agree that supplying a half meter unplugged power lead to the machine seems ridiculous, especially considering Hammer provide a reasonable length of power lead together with a plug for the N4400 bandsaw!! I was surprised to discover this on delivery of my A3-31 and N4400 earlier this year. However, I found it fairly straight forward to hard-wire a 4m length of lead with a 20A plug to my A3-31.

Hammer's advertising is at times confusing, and misleading. I've mentioned it elsewhere that the N4400 bandsaw is advertised as having a 5inch dust port when in fact it is merely a 5inch connector attached directly to a 4inch port! What's more disappointing is that Hammer Austria and Australia have not responded to my enquiries as to why this is.

Hammer quality is a mixture of well engineered and truely badly made (bandsaw miter guage!!) gear, overall though the quality is high albeit IMO somewhat over-priced.

Originally Posted by hiroller

For a winder:
Acquire a used 100mm (or so) one piece hole saw and discard pilot drill.
Cut off teeth.
Cut back edge leaving 4 equally spaced lugs protruding.
Drill 4 holes in winding wheel corresponding to lugs.
Attach device to battery drill and insert lugs into wheel for winding.

Or, if you don't want to drill holes in your shiny new toy, wrap some grippy rubber around a ply/MDF/whatever disk, put a long bolt through it and use that in a drill on the edge of the winder.

My A3-31 with spiral blades arrived and was installed yesterday. I agree with all the comments about the accessories that should not be accessories. I got the wheels because it was one of those items I needed and, frankly, would have been more irritated at having to make myself. Cry once. I purchased the digital readout because I thought it would make using the thicknesser easier. I did not get anything else ... yet.

I had mixed feelings about the power cord. Why mixed? Because partly I was expecting it (thanks Brett), and partly because I did not care. I wasn't planning to use it anyway. The irony is I bought the 20 amp plug just in case and it is likely to lie unused in a cupboard. I also purchased a 120mm-to-100mm dust outlet reducer because I use 100" for my Hammer 4400 bandsaw, and the two items cost $60! That is a rip off.

Anyway, while I already have 20 amp in the wall for the 4400 (that connection cost $1000 four years ago), I had decided that I would try the A3-31 in a 15 amp plug (I have two of these in the workshop, one for the tablesaw, the other free to use). The Felder guys were skeptical, saying that the machine would not start (it seems it is all about starting, not so much about use). My reasoning was that the spiral blades need reduced power and using the machine on 15 amps may drop it down to about 3 h.p. at worst. While they were there I plugged it into the 15 amp socket, and the bloody machine just started without a hitch and worked without any effort at all. So there it will stay, unless someone here says it is a bad idea.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

My A3-31 with spiral blades arrived and was installed yesterday. I agree with all the comments about the accessories that should not be accessories. I got the wheels because it was one of those items I needed and, frankly, would have been more irritated at having to make myself. Cry once. I purchased the digital readout because I thought it would make using the thicknesser easier. I did not get anything else ... yet.

I had mixed feelings about the power cord. Why mixed? Because partly I was expecting it (thanks Brett), and partly because I did not care. I wasn't planning to use it anyway. The irony is I bought the 20 amp plug just in case and it is likely to lie unused in a cupboard. I also purchased a 120mm-to-100mm dust outlet reducer because I use 100" for my Hammer 4400 bandsaw, and the two items cost $60! That is a rip off.

Anyway, while I already have 20 amp in the wall for the 4400 (that connection cost $1000 four years ago), I had decided that I would try the A3-31 in a 15 amp plug (I have two of these in the workshop, one for the tablesaw, the other free to use). The Felder guys were skeptical, saying that the machine would not start (it seems it is all about starting, not so much about use). My reasoning was that the spiral blades need reduced power and using the machine on 15 amps may drop it down to about 3 h.p. at worst. While they were there I plugged it into the 15 amp socket, and the bloody machine just started without a hitch and worked without any effort at all. So there it will stay, unless someone here says it is a bad idea.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hey Derek, plugging something into an under rated socket doesn't reduce it's power. It's just more likely to trip the breaker (providing the person that put the circuit in did the right thing) You're likely to have a 20a breaker on that circuit (check the board) and 2.5mm cable so I'd say you're home free.

Pm me if you want any more info. I'm an industrial sparkie and I'm in Perth.

Were you the reason the guys weren't in the factory yesterday morning when I was trying to pick up my Dado set?

Derek

I agree with Dalejw. Induction motors draw several times their running current during the start up process. You will probably get away with it for a while because the machine starts pretty much unloaded. The cutter head is next to nothing in terms of load. If you really want to stay with the 15amp plug you could try a VFD to create a soft start, but it is going to be more expensive particularly as you already have a 20amp plug.

If it is a flat pin, you can put your 15amp and 10amp plugs into that socket also: Different if it is a round 20amp. I think that overheating of the motor and/or the cabling will be an issue long term if you stay with the 15amp.

Regards
Paul

Just checked AS3008 and unless you've got a really long cable run from the board (voltage drop issues) or you've completely surrounded the whole cable run in thermal insulation you've easily got 20A out of a 2.5mm cable.

If that's the only thing on that circuit you've got absolutely nothing to worry about.

Hey Derek, plugging something into an under rated socket doesn't reduce it's power. It's just more likely to trip the breaker (providing the person that put the circuit in did the right thing) You're likely to have a 20a breaker on that circuit (check the board) and 2.5mm cable so I'd say you're home free.

Pm me if you want any more info. I'm an industrial sparkie and I'm in Perth.

Were you the reason the guys weren't in the factory yesterday morning when I was trying to pick up my Dado set?

Sorry about that Dale - yes, the boys were at my home setting up the A3-31!

With regards the 20 amp circuit, it was installed by a licensed sparkie, has its own dedicated board (within the box for the house board). At the time it was installed, I also had twin 15 amp plugs put in. The plugs are grouped together. The 20 amp plug and cable to the 4400 is a run of about 2.5m. The 15 amp plug and cable to the A3-31 is about 2m.

If you are in my area (Rossmoyne) I would be happy to pay you to check it out for me. I very much appreciate your help so far.

A question I do have is whether there is such a thing as a double adapter for the 20 amp socket? I would not use both the 4400 and the A3-31 at the same time, but - if necessary to plug the A3-31 into 20 amps - it would make it easier, quicker and cheaper to use the same socket for both machines.

Regards from Perth

Derek

No such thing as a double adaptor but we'll sort it out...

Dale, is it legit to run another 20A GPO off the existing one? Obviously both can't be used at the same time but then there's only one chap.

You're in a bit of a grey area there mate. Based on AS3000 you should follow the maximum circuit loading guidelines which says you can only have 1 outlet off that breaker (using 2.5mm cable).

BUT

You haven't changed the maximum demand of the circuit and the loading is a guideline, not a defined clause per se.

It's in the area of "If they were really looking to get you, they might pick on it". I would do it in my house but wouldn't do it in someone else's. I don't see it as dangerous though.

If it's wired in 4mm cable with a 32a breaker it's 100% legit.

I love grey areas!

Just to float another idea (that won't necessarily be the solution for Derek's situation): is there anything to stop you making a separate plug in power board (like the 10A ones that everyone uses) with two 20A GPOs mounted on blocks on a piece of MDF? That would seem to me be ok, because in theory those 10A jobbies can have 4 (or even 6) 10A appliances plugged in to them. That way it's not hard-wired in to the house circuits.

So you're talking about an unlicensed person building an unapproved appliance to plug in?

See where I'm going with this?

There's a certification process for anything you plug into a socket outlet otherwise it's illegal to use it. We recently had a supplier sell us some very expensive LED lights that weren't C tick approved. Very naughty and they'd be seriously fined if energy safety found out.

You'll also find commercial powerboards have a circuit breaker (that's the button on the side) that stops you drawing more than 10a total off all the outlets.

This is the sort of legislation that keeps people like me in a job!

Interesting thoughts Dale. While appliances and items for commercial sale must be approved, an adapter made wholly with approved components may be a different matter. There is no alteration or addition to the fixed wiring so no notification or inspection is required and the protection on the actual outlet will limit current draw through the adapter. As it would only be used to remove the necessity to plug and unplug each machine I don't see a problem. If you tried to run two 20A machines at the same time you would probably just trip the breaker anyway.
Just my thoughts.