Thread: Hammer A3 31 Thicky/Jointer - a good machine, but buyer beware of certain aspects

Originally Posted by NCArcher

Interesting thoughts Dale. While appliances and items for commercial sale must be approved, an adapter made wholly with approved components may be a different matter. There is no alteration or addition to the fixed wiring so no notification or inspection is required and the protection on the actual outlet will limit current draw through the adapter. As it would only be used to remove the necessity to plug and unplug each machine I don't see a problem. If you tried to run two 20A machines at the same time you would probably just trip the breaker anyway.
Just my thoughts.

I'm with ya mate. It's very grey area (like a lot of the wiring rules).

Paraphrasing clause 2.2.4.1 says everything you connect must comply with all relevant clauses in the wiring rules. That means you're supposed to take into account your circuit loading guidelines (table c8) with anything you plug in. It's very airy fairy and like most things in grey areas, provided no one gets hurt I'd say no one would pick you on it. If something happens though, they'd hang you on it.

Providing your lead to the double adaptor was capable of handling the 20A I see no danger (providing the rest of the wiring system was right). I'd just be putting another outlet on the wall (off the back of the first 20a outlet). You're in the same murky water as the double adaptor idea and it's more convenient

I've just finished my contractors nominees course, I'm up to my eyeballs in theory and clauses at the moment... It won't last, alcohol abuse will take care of all this crap in my head

You don't need to be licensed to wire a plug top in WA. You've just got to be competent. Ergo, you do it right, you're competent. F$)k it up and you're toast.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

....is there anything to stop you making a separate plug in power board (like the 10A ones that everyone uses) with two 20A GPOs mounted on blocks on a piece of MDF? ....

Just to clarify: by "you", I meant literally you Dale, i.e. a licenced sparky. However, I agree that just running another GPO of the first one is simpler, cheaper, and more convenient.

Tony, if two machines were started up, it wouldn't necessarily trip out the at the circuit breaker if it was a 32A jobbie such as you installed at my place, would it? The thicky hums along at 13A after the initial startup draw, not sure what the Bandsaw draws after startup, but can't possibly be 19A). In which case the 2.5mm flex might get a bit warmer than it should (I presume that the 4mm solid core flat would handle that draw though - in case you've forgotten where that was, it was underneath the house where you spent two cramped hot 'n dusty hours, and discovering that little weird guy that lives there )

You'd need 240A to trip a 32A breaker immediately. I'd say you 'll be fine but I'll leave it to Tony who's met the weird guy under the house to see what he's arranged

I got a Xmas card from that guy
With the thicky humming along at 13 amps, starting up the second unit may push it past the trip limit. Starting current is much higher but it may hold in. As soon as you loaded up one of the machines your current draw would increase.
But you wouldn't start 2 machines on one outlet would you Brett That's why I put in two on separate circuits.
Given the thicky a good work out yet?

Originally Posted by dalejw

You'd need 240A to trip a 32A breaker immediately. I'd say you 'll be fine but I'll leave it to Tony who's met the weird guy under the house to see what he's arranged

The breakers aren't D curve, just standard.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

The breakers aren't D curve, just standard.

240A for a C curve. D curve would be 13.5*32A = 432A

Errrrgh.... Under houses.... You'd want to have premium beer for that.

I was grovelling around under this house shortly after we'd bought it and ran into a pile of prickly plastic. Put the torch on it and it was a pile of maybe 200 used syringes that corresponded with a knot hole above in the floor of the lounge room.

Hell of a sharps container!

Classy joint we live in

Originally Posted by dalejw

I was grovelling around under this house shortly after we'd bought it and ran into a pile of prickly plastic. Put the torch on it and it was a pile of maybe 200 used syringes that corresponded with a knot hole above in the floor of the lounge room.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by dalejw

Errrrgh.... Under houses.... You'd want to have premium beer for that.

Yup, that's what he got alright. Oh, and pizza, plus a bed for the night. No expense spared.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

But you wouldn't start 2 machines on one outlet would you Brett That's why I put in two on separate circuits.
Given the thicky a good work out yet?

You must think I'm half sensible.

Too right I have - about 4 DC bags full. I did post a small vac-packed dust sample to Pac Man, with a rather rude comment. I'm not too sure what/who the thicky is now - he didn't get the joke! (it had a note on the envelope "URGENT Open immediately" and his son retrieved it from the letterbox. "Shall I open it Dad?" But quick as a flash Pac Man saw who it was from, and decided he best open it himself. Just as well I'd say )

There is no evidence that the dust was produced by you or the new "Alfa Romeo" of thicknessers. No photos = it didn't happen.
As I said to you it could have come out one of your ears for all I know!

I love the irony where Derek, the hand tool guru, kicks off a lively discussion on wiring powered machinery.

For those playing along at home, we did a few measurements of this machine yesterday.

Free running the machine pulled 6.9A, planing a 4mm cut of a piece of Kapur the machine pulled..... wait for it..... 6.9A.

Seems like the spiral block is very effiecient.

I'd expect thicknessing a big, heavy 300m piece of hardwood where the drive rollers were really working would bump this up (not a test we tried) but I can't see it pulling 20A continuously.

Inrush current at startup was 85A but it's important to realise that circuit breakers don't trip in a linear fashion.

Originally Posted by dalejw

Free running the machine pulled 6.9A, planing a 4mm cut of a piece of Kapur the machine pulled..... wait for it..... 6.9A.

Good stuff Dale. I'm not really surprised by the low draw - it's rated as 3kW (around 13A, 230V) and that would have to be maximum load (and probably then some for safety margin).

Good to know that it isn't too expensive to run though.

The thing about a large efficient motor on something like this is that it will probably never load up enough to get the big current spikes you'd get with a much smaller, less efficient motor.

The only time I've ever heard the motor note on mine (the 3 phase version) change was thicknessing 300mm wide jarrah end grain. Even then I'd be surprised if I drew more than another 10%.

Here is the joy of owning high end gear, things continue to work in the way you expect because they are never under stress.

Underpowered = unpredictable.

Many thanks once again for your expertise Dale. It was great to meet you and swap stories. I trust we shall do this again.

To all - one of the actions that Dale took was to replace the cable I used to connect to the short supplied Hammer cable. I had purchased 15A rated cable (the highest they had) at Bunnings. Guess what? It was not 15A but only about 10A. (Dale changed this out for 20A cable). Buyer beware!

Regards from Perth

Derek