Thread: New Sherwood 13in Deluxe Thicknesser with Helical Spiral Head on it's way

Hi Phil,

So from what I can see on the pics above, the new unit you've received also has the small cut out in the centre section (like mine does as per pics we've exchanged)?

Really surprising that the units have that section cut out as a I don't see what if any purpose it serves than just having a straight plate piece.
I don't have many issues with mine but at times I have noticed it is hard to get timber through the unit in the centre but honestly, I think that is more my errors than a fault with the unit, it's usually because I've wound the cutterhead too far, usually a small turn the other way fixes that issue for me.

I'm still happy with mine and for the money I certainly can't complain. I recently built a cart for my unit to live on and with castors I can move it around the shed nice and easy as required. My little workshop is a garden shed that's roughly 4 metres by 3 metres so space is at a premium!

Interested to hear more back from you on your findings.
Cheers,
Dave

Originally Posted by davewicks28

Hi Phil,

So from what I can see on the pics above, the new unit you've received also has the small cut out in the centre section (like mine does as per pics we've exchanged)?

Really surprising that the units have that section cut out as a I don't see what if any purpose it serves than just having a straight plate piece.

Cheers,
Dave

Yep, its a strange design feature, which I presume is an attempt to prevent or at least reduce load on the electric motor.

Issue - Save costs, use under spec electric motor which is potentially under powered and hence overheats.

Solution - Stop users making wide deep passes! Solved!

Having the extra depth for a part of the full width at least permits deeper passes on narrower boards.

It would be interesting to see if this "design feature" is for all markets or only the Australian market with our relatively hard woods compared to the northern hemisphere markets?

Originally Posted by davewicks28

Hi Phil,

So from what I can see on the pics above, the new unit you've received also has the small cut out in the centre section (like mine does as per pics we've exchanged)?

Really surprising that the units have that section cut out as a I don't see what if any purpose it serves than just having a straight plate piece.
I don't have many issues with mine but at times I have noticed it is hard to get timber through the unit in the centre but honestly, I think that is more my errors than a fault with the unit, it's usually because I've wound the cutterhead too far, usually a small turn the other way fixes that issue for me.

I'm still happy with mine and for the money I certainly can't complain. I recently built a cart for my unit to live on and with castors I can move it around the shed nice and easy as required. My little workshop is a garden shed that's roughly 4 metres by 3 metres so space is at a premium!

Interested to hear more back from you on your findings.
Cheers,
Dave

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Yep, its a strange design feature, which I presume is an attempt to prevent or at least reduce load on the electric motor.

Issue - Save costs, use under spec electric motor which is potentially under powered and hence overheats.

Solution - Stop users making wide deep passes! Solved!

Having the extra depth for a part of the full width at least permits deeper passes on narrower boards.

It would be interesting to see if this "design feature" is for all markets or only the Australian market with our relatively hard woods compared to the northern hemisphere markets?

On the design feature for want of a better term.....

I would say it started with the US market remembering that the machines we get are coming out of the places that produce mainly for the american market ... a quite comprehensive test of power consumption of a dewalt 735, one with strait blades and one with a shellix head showed close to DOUBLE the current draw using the shellix head at the same depth of cut.
Quite logical when you consider the cutters are constantly engaged even if only a small section of width at a time.

I looked a few for sale in the US this evening and all the bladed ones seem to have a single full width cutout.... all the segmented versions had the same depth limiting cutout. So lets say we are inheriting the USA setup.

I was told directly by Timbecon that it is to limit the power draw for full width cuts by preventing deep cuts.... so no mystery it is a genuine cut depth prevention feature.

Timbecon however don't have this listed ANYWHERE on the website and not all manufacturers seems to make it clear ... The Hafco T-13S in the other thread clearly states in it's specs

Maximum Depth of Cut	1.5mm @ 330mm Wide 3.3mm @ 152mm Wide

Really It should be listed the same way for this one

Takeaway though that for the segmented/helical machines the design specifically limits the cut, take it or leave it across the board.

Dave - i did solve the "hard to start" issue... it's the kickback pawls not swinging up a some depth of cut settings... simple fix, tilt the board up into the pawls and as soon as they are passed lower to the bed.

Originally Posted by Aussiephil

On the design feature for want of a better term.....

Really It should be listed the same way for this one

Takeaway though that for the segmented/helical machines the design specifically limits the cut, take it or leave it across the board.

I must admit my first awareness of "the design feature" was through your original post plus my first use confirmed the issue - why can't I pass similar thickness narrow width stock through the unit to spread wear????

I reckon a disgruntled customer would have a fair claim under ACCC consumer guarantees because the manufacturer / seller does not state depth of cut nor does it specifically state that there is a limitation on the depth of cut or that the depth of cut available varies across the width of the unit. Gets back to what a typical customer could reasonably expect from a unit of this capacity - to have similar specifications to typical / similar units.

One would hope that not listing the depth of cut specs and the variation across the width of the unit is a genuine omission and will be rectified, rather than an attempt to mislead / deceive by omission.

I'm happy with the units performance, but not overly happy about this design feature though. I can live with it. The performance and noise reduction far outweigh that annoyance.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I must admit my first awareness of "the design feature" was through your original post plus my first use confirmed the issue - why can't I pass similar thickness narrow width stock through the unit to spread wear????

I would suggest that the concept of spreading the wear is a falsehood now with segmented cutter heads. Better to wear out a defined section and wear out is wrong anyway, they will just get a bit blunt and you rotate or replace, easier to do this if the majority of wear is in a defined area.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I reckon a disgruntled customer would have a fair claim under ACCC consumer guarantees because the manufacturer / seller does not state depth of cut nor does it specifically state that there is a limitation on the depth of cut or that the depth of cut available varies across the width of the unit. Gets back to what a typical customer could reasonably expect from a unit of this capacity - to have similar specifications to typical / similar units.

Straight and segmented units all seem to use the similar "depth of cut" gauge on the front that by it's markings implies that up to 3mm could be taken off at a time. The experienced know this is a joke for wide or hard woods but likely not unreasonable for quite soft woods even to full width but the new or inexperience will not know this and base capability on what is seen.
It would be very easy to get a full refund under Australian consumer laws but seriously they are all the same so no real point unless you spend thousand plus more to get more capability.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

One would hope that not listing the depth of cut specs and the variation across the width of the unit is a genuine omission and will be rectified, rather than an attempt to mislead / deceive by omission.

mmmm, looking at quite a few of the Sherwood products the listed specifications tend to be on the lighter side and the minimum that could be listed. Transparency on the thicknessers should see them list depth of cut specs like Hafco do
Carbatec show this for their segmented unit but the photo seems to show a full width cutout with no artificial limit, the Hafco is the same as the Sherwood

Maximum Depth Of Cut

Max 3.0mm (narrow cut) - 1.5mm recommended

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I'm happy with the units performance, but not overly happy about this design feature though. I can live with it. The performance and noise reduction far outweigh that annoyance.

Me too and i will recommend this to others as a better option than the spiral segmented units.

OK, about the machine itself.

Now that I have the Wixey set up on it I can confirm the actual travel per turn

over 20 turns i measured 31.6mm of travel giving 1.58mm per turn of the handle, this is near enough to 16TPI or guess what 1/16th per turn

1/4 turn = 0.395 = 0.4mm = 1/64
1/2 turn = 0.79 = close enough to 0.8 = 1/32

I wonder how many just take a full turn for the next cut ... even a 1/4 turn would be too much if just taking a smoothing layer

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I must admit my first awareness of "the design feature" was through your original post plus my first use confirmed the issue - why can't I pass similar thickness narrow width stock through the unit to spread wear????

Not sure if I am misunderstanding what you are saying here. You can pass narrow stock through any part of the machine to share the wear, not just the centre section providing you are happy to take the lighter cuts.

Originally Posted by Treecycle

Not sure if I am misunderstanding what you are saying here. You can pass narrow stock through any part of the machine to share the wear, not just the centre section providing you are happy to take the lighter cuts.

Well yeah "if you are prepared to take lighter cuts"

What we are getting at is that with straight blade units mainly there is no mechanical limits put in place to make sure you can do that.... different with the segmented cutter units... the bollocks part is that this is rarely if ever part of the website sales descriptions, may be disclosed in the online specs, is buried in user manuals and at least in the Sherwood case not disclosed until you have the unit in hand.... seriously i didn't even notice it till i tried to do it.

If you are allowed to take a 3mm cut on a 150mm wide section through the middle then you should also be allowed to do it on the left and right..

Originally Posted by Aussiephil

Well yeah "if you are prepared to take lighter cuts"

What we are getting at is that with straight blade units mainly there is no mechanical limits put in place to make sure you can do that.... different with the segmented cutter units... the bollocks part is that this is rarely if ever part of the website sales descriptions, may be disclosed in the online specs, is buried in user manuals and at least in the Sherwood case not disclosed until you have the unit in hand.... seriously i didn't even notice it till i tried to do it.

If you are allowed to take a 3mm cut on a 150mm wide section through the middle then you should also be allowed to do it on the left and right..

Yes that is my point. I am not impressed by the moves to "idiot proof" everything. IMO if you are dumb enough to attempt to take 3 mm pass of a 310 mm wide Aussie hardwood then perhaps you should read manuals and get some training on how to use machinery.

I have been using wood working machinery since I was a 12 yo in a range of light industrial / home timber construction and cabinetry on-site and in a family friends cabinet shop. I spent a 7 year informal part time apprenticeship, trained by a professional cabinet maker and my father a carpenter / joiner / registered builder, so I do understand the limitations and capacity of "hobbyist" vs "professional" machinery. Last 35 years as a hobbyist!

I did take a maximum depth "lighter cut" on a 500 mm length of 250 wide x 55 mm thick feature grade grain New Guinea Rosewood as a test / trial - no issues, particularly impressed with the quality of finish, and greatly reduced noise levels - however the machine would obviously have a light duty cycle so it would not be something that I would expect to do routinely or in "production mode."

Yes, I agree that spreading wear on cutters is not really an issue with spiral / helical cutter heads like it is with 2 or 3 cutter heads. Its a productivity issue.

Thickness and width. I have no issue with light cuts on wide boards, just peeved that I can only use a small portion of the full width of the machine to take between 1.5 and 3 mm off up to 75 mm wide x 25 - 30 mm thick and typically 400 to 600 mm long stock like Northern Silky oak etc to take back to 19 mm thickness or less. The thicky should reasonably handle two 75 - 80 mm boards fed through in a staggered feed, and 4 or 5 strips / boards 25 mm wide also fed through staggered with a 2 mm cut!

I'm definitely not into high volume production, not even small volume production, however when I do use the thicky I expect to be able to use the "whole" of the machines feed width. The "design feature" greatly limits my productivity, wastes my time and means the machine runs for much longer under relatively light loading.

Just to clarify - my typical task is to thickness 75 - 80 mm wide material to a thickness range from 1 to approx 9 mm thickness for construction of inlay bandings. Mostly it is cut 2 to 3 mm oversize on a bandsaw after one face has been dressed. I rarely thickness anything wider - so yes it is a significant annoyance, but I am prepared to live with it for the improved quality of finished stock and the noise level reductions - for now! Perhaps in the future it may get modified!

Perhaps I should have purchased a 150 mm wide thicknesser! Oh I did, in reality.

I suspect that mine might have an experience on the mill at some stage in the future.

I just tested actually using it, just mucked around with what was some 70x35 pine ... now about 65x25

Never checked the tables etc just wanted to make sure it worked and to calibrate the wixey and to test the dust extraction idea
P3170099.jpg

Who says that you always get snipe ...... nothing visible on this side... the other side has a visible mark but measuring with the digital calipers i got 25.0 in the middle of the length and 24.94 at either end, so in the words of 99.999% of woodworkers non existent!

I'm wondering if when they tested this one they tuned the in/out tables but it does prove you can get a snipe free output.

P3170093.jpg P3170094.jpg

Now as far as the chip/dust collection the unit comes with what seems to be a standard shroud for many that has a 2" outlet on it ... this severely cut's the airflow to the DC so i thought to design the blue fitting above that merges air from directly behind the unit to the 2" outlet and keeps the total cfm up as far as possible.
Practical testing showed that I had to block about half of the bell mouth area to maximise the chip extraction whilst keeping the flow going to the DC.... just printing a new version to test hopefully tomorrow

Also the cut available on mine without any binding on the left/right is 1.1mm

Another trivia bit is that the winding handle seems to have about 1/6th of a turn in backlash so this may be teaching everyone to suck eggs but like with a mill always set your final depth by going up so the cutter head assemble is loading the screw and can't fall further.
This actually has a small chance of being a snipe cause on exit as the rollers hold stuff in place but as the pressure comes of the infeed roller the whole assemble shifts down by the available backlash ..... mmm will have to explore that by wasting a bit more wood

Cheers
Phil

Thanks Aussiephil. Excellent solution to keeping your DC CFM up, quite elegant really.

I agree on the screw thread "backlash" issue, learned that quite a long time ago (crikey I just realized that is over 50 years ago! - now I'm really feeling old!) from our cabinet maker family friend. As a professional surveyor I had been trained to always screw a spring loaded thread i.e. theodolite (now total stations) tangent screws into compression for the final setting / adjustment - always!

My experience with snipe issues or practical lack of snipe on the Sherwood is the same, a very light pass through a drum sander and no one would know.

Feed direction of stock still matters with feature grain to prevent / minimize tear out, though certainly not so much as with traditional 2 or 3 cutter head thicky's. Straight grain hardly matters on "clean" straight grained woods.

I could thickness down to approx 1.2 mm thick with reasonable confidence and success on straight grained woods using a spacer base board with my old H&F unit & with new or recently sharpened cutter blades. Haven't tested how far I can go yet with the Sherwood, though I'm quite confident that I can equal or better that. I like to make thick veneers in the range 0.8 to 1.5 mm thick. Remember I'm only making thick veneers for my banding requirements so under 150 mm wide at max.

Thicky to 100mm inlet side.pngthicky 100mm exit.png
They are the renders for the 3D printer 50mm to 100mm adapter that fits the shroud on the back of the Sherwood thicknesser and honestly probably ever other 50mm machine exit
What i have done though is to allow surrounding air to be drawn in to keep the CFM air flow up.
Just looking at the renders I think to get a more laminar airflow happening i need to airfoil the outer of the inner wall, the outer section is fully radiused inline with modeling for airflow entering a pipe. It's not a full parabolic curve, but from modeling will still be efficient.

The STL file can be found -> Dropbox - Thicky 2inch.stl - Simplify your life if anyone would like it.

I got asked tonight in the Sunday Jabber if i would buy this again.

The answer swift and unequivocal was - YES.

Yes i've had a saga, yes they could do a better job with the specs but overall, nothing at the moment comes close in the portable lunchbox market especially for the price. So yes i would buy it again.

I crapped my self yesterday when i thought i broke it, and i had but it was a dumb mistake by me and a time consuming though dead simple fix. It also proved, once i had it apart, that the front and rear rollers are truly independent.

Issue: running a 8" wide board through and it got stuck on a protruding but of wood, went to quickly wide the motor assembly up as i initially though it was just jammed... opps went down instead... pushed the infeed roller up high enough on the right side so it snagged on the L plate bracket that keeps it from moving left/right. This stopped it from falling back into place by the spring!!!

Well guess who didn't notice as the left side still had enough grip to feed the timber, fast forward to running the hardwood strips and the left side was fine, middle was marginal and the right just jumped straight up in the cutter head... Now here's me thinking oh crap i've broken it and another 4 weeks will go by..

Well a quick look showed the infeed roller at a serious angle of not working so off cam the top and sides, that's when i noticed the bracket... a light tap with a block of wood and deadblow and the infeed roller snapped back into place.... those springs are strong but at the same time it does take a lot of leverage to move the roller and hence peoples experience with snipe.

Assembled and tested, the only thing was to reset the zero point on the Wixey gauge...

Hey Phil,

Could I trouble you to send me a few pics (or post on this thread) of the infeed and outfeed tables and how they're setup? Maybe with a straight edge set up along the length and that sort of thing?

I am sort of not getting snipe but I know my tables could be better setup and some pics would be super helpful!

Thanks
David