Thread: Spindle Moulders and Tooling

Thx, more expensive than my machines lol but I'm sure it would be worth it in the long run. I have a thincknesser prob about 2' blade and jointer might be 8" I would have to check

regards

Dave

I'm interested in the helical head for 2 reasons.

1. = noise reduction - my machine and shed are in the back yard, & I don't want to drive the neighbors nuts.

2. = I will probably try and source dry Jarrah from demolition roofs, and bearers & joists from under floors etc, de-nail it and then machine it. When you do this, invariably you hit parts of nails that break off deep inside the timber and that you miss with the drill and metal detector - which then chips the blades/knives. With the helical head you just rotate that 1 or 2 cutter teeth 90 degrees and you have new cutting face and no raised line on the wood where the chip was. On straight knives, you lose maybe 10 or so normal sharpening's worth of steel, just grinding the chip out. 2 replacement cutters for the helical head at $3 each...& 5 minutes to replace or rotate them...

It's a no - brainer really.

The benefit of a slicing cut with minimal tear out on wild grain is another benefit.

Cost to run the head with replacement cutters etc is higher tho - so it's a trade off.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Cost to run the head with replacement cutters etc is higher tho - so it's a trade off.

How is the cost higher as you mention, other than initial outlay that is.

I've seen it said that they are dearer to run. You can turn the square cutter 3 times once the first side is blunt, before all 4 sides are then blunt and its time to replace them. Byrd can supply them at $30 US for a box of 10 - but those folks with wide heads and say 70 cutters will need 3 boxes (90 cutters) sent over (Our $ is dropping against the US lately) also there's the postage. Some folks are buying their replacement cutters from carbatec etc at around $7 a cutter - suddenly 70 of them starts to cost a chunk!

Some commercial shops working principally Aussie hardwoods are reporting about 3 months daily use on each side of the cutter so - 12 months for replacement...

Compare this to a $15 sharpen of your planer knives for the 18% tungsten / cobalt HSS ones...and how frequently you pay to have them sharpened over a year in a commercial shop.

For me as a hobby back-yarder this wouldn't be an issue (and the Robland X 31 planer head is only 310mm wide... so takes less cutters).

I'm just reporting what other users are saying... they do however say that the time saving in turning the square cutters versus replacing blunt knives...is a definite saving.

It would probably vary from shop to shop depending on your machine and what you put thru it.

I've heard of users who run the top flat surface of their square cutters on a diamond stone... and they put a new cutting edge on it.... and re use them once or twice before replacing them... how effective this is I can't say. Essentially it should make the squares slightly smaller... as they get thinner and mean that they don't reach the full diameter cut of the new cutters - so I figured maybe there would be some scoring between differing cutter heights etc after hand sharpening this way - but the users all say no - they think it cuts just fine after hand honing.

Who knows it MAY be something where if the cost of cutters is too high that saw doctors will start supplying a commercial sharpening service for them? Maybe it would pay if mechanized or CNC done.... I'm not a saw doctor so could only guess. I think until there's enough of them in use we likely won't know.

Will it be that someone start importing the square replacement cutters form say China ad 20 cents each versus $3 or $7 bucks?

I'm amazed that the Chinese aren't already supplying copies of the Byrd Shellix Helical and Carbatec V Spiral heads for $300.... they copy everything else - like Stihl Chainsaws etc so brand copying isn't an issue in China - apparently there's no Patent and Brand copying laws in Chinese legal system....so they do it with seeming impunity...

I'm guessing it's just a question of time before we see these things coming in cheap from China.

Others mileage may vary.

I only know what I've been researching over the last few weeks.

First of all the current Chinese carbide is not up to standard and the price reflects that. I still use leitz tooling in my heads as the cost is off set by the durability. I do not know anybody using anything out of China because the quality is simply not there. Remember carbide has hundreds of grades so compare apples with apples.

If you have these heads fitted you must have great dust extraction as well. It is pointless have the best head and tooling and you have rubbish dust extraction. Carbide worst enemy is resin build up therefor you must get rid of the waste.

Originally Posted by slidingdovetail

..... But why limit the amount of stock removal?

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

....
My cutters are what would be called dangerous. Im told every time they start it up they duck under the table....

Originally Posted by Gyroman

Hi Pete.
...so many horror stories about the spindle moulder and no wonder when you see the risks being taken with tooling that came out of the dark ages.
The modern "Euro" cutter blocks that come with locating pins, limiters and wedges are just about foolproof...
Chris

This stuff is awakening the armchair anthropologist in me...
Let's say a myth is a story that we all believe in, which may be useful even if its not true....Many of the rules that get offered about safety may be founded on peculiar (particular) experience rather than generic or universal principal. But they may allow some safety.


If one considers the tip speed of the knife and the sectional area being removed, relative to the feed speed....then one can work safely without a limiter.


If the plain knives are properly secured in an old style head they do not come out. One needs to clean well with air every time the clamp screws in the head are worked or the knives changed or adjusted. Any gum, residue or oil needs to be cleaned off the knife before fitting. The blade(s) need to be balanced or it's another risk towards a poorly secured knife. A single knife with a balance mass can be fine. The clamp screws can be quite highly torqued. I had a 5 inch long alan key bending quite a lot (very scientific).


It's not the tooling that comes from the dark ages, it's the reliance on myth rather than knowledge.

I just noticed that this thread is 9 years old. There are 9 non members currently with the tab open. Maybe they are bots just gathering data.

Gregg.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

I'm interested in the helical head for 2 reasons.


1. = noise reduction -
2. = source dry Jarrah from demolition roofs, and bearers & joists from under floors etc, de-nail it and then machine it.

You probably have your own denailing and metal detecting protocols... I learned some by watching the old Tongan guys at my friends timber yard. They had tweaked detectors and ridgid protocols. Each face was detected 3 or 4 times and marked. They carried a nail puller (below), a blunt 1/2 inch cold chisel and a crayon. They would really lay into these expensive pieces of kauri chasing even a tiny flake.
nail puller.png

Back in the day, earning a living working with demo kauri and rimu, I turned the gain on my detector till the sound almost disappeared, sensitivity high, I could hear a small steel piece quite deep. But I would sometimes miss a nail or flake and damage a blade. My Tanner had three plain blades resting on set screws, so one could shift a blade slightly sideways. Now I have an Hitachi F-1000A with steelite tipped blades that may not have much sideways movement at all, so well see...

If spiral heads, carbide cutters were available back then I probably would have been in. Now I think I will be ok if I just train Junior on the metal detecting.

Gregg.