Thread: Spindle Moulders and Tooling

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

thanks Pete, if you ever get bored up north and want to avoid the wife you are welcome to come down here for a 'holiday'

Thanks for the offer, Its a pity we don't live closer i may of been able to help you with some of your restorations. I do have a milling machine and a lathe, although the lathe is one of the machines that is not quite re-assembled.. close but no cigars celebrations yet (no I can't smoke or drink.. doc orders).. so a man has to do something with his money besides giving it to the wife..
Cheers,
Pete

Pete

I'll try t be sure to let you know as I start each project. Dont think I will start any before Christmas - bit of a $$$ and time issue

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

My cutters are what would be called dangerous. Im told every time they start it up they duck under the table, if no blades come flying out they get up and start to use

that's what we do on all the machines at work! hehe well actually it's duck-for-cover dry run after every changeover

if you're ever looking for cutters there's some sets here that I'll bring some up with me next feb

DaveTTC

Yeah! I know what you mean life left me with just 2 things to spend my money on PBS (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme) medication and Tools. So this new MS + 1 set of Eurocutters and a Power Feeder cleans me out till next FY.
Cheers,
Pete

Originally Posted by Cured

Sorry TM is actually the brand logo of the cutter H&F sells which is on the H&F SM, what caught my eye was the IVA markings of 150x50x30 which means OD 150 ID 30 and MAX depth of cut 50 I beleive. Which should mean the spindle shaft for the Wolfenden is the same as the H&F SM?
Cheers,
Pete

oh I got it now, the size printed on the head. yeah that'll be it outer diameter 125mm x height 50mm x arbor 30mm.

hmmm, but although the spindle shaft is the same 30mm on both SM, I'd doubt the hafco has the strength to spin such a heavier cutter head like the Wolf does.

I dunno much about motors and power behind the builds of them but the weight difference in cutter heads is incredible. I'd confidently say that the hafco cutter heads would easily work on solid old machines like Daves one and the Wolf, but the heavier solid heads could cause some lethal damage to the likes of hafco SMs with lighter heads.

Originally Posted by slidingdovetail

oh I got it now, the size printed on the head. yeah that'll be it outer diameter 125mm x height 50mm x arbor 30mm.

hmmm, but although the spindle shaft is the same 30mm on both SM, I'd doubt the hafco has the strength to spin such a heavier cutter head like the Wolf does.

I dunno much about motors and power behind the builds of them but the weight difference in cutter heads is incredible. I'd confidently say that the hafco cutter heads would easily work on solid old machines like Daves one and the Wolf, but the heavier solid heads could cause some lethal damage to the likes of hafco SMs with lighter heads.

You may well have a point, obvously you have more esperience than my none. Although the specs on the H&F SM do not mention dia/size limitations but my experience in the incredible weight difference between dia's can be singificant. I recently bought a 8" rotary table for my metal mill and the weight difference from going from 6" to 8" dia was 13kgs to 45kgs. I have noticed carbatec sell the CMT cutter head and they only come in 100x50x30. So thanks once again for the heads up..
Cheers,
Pete

Originally Posted by Cured

Paintman, I've tried to find A1 Machinery in Sydney but it appears they do not have a web address or they are trading under another name. Because I've looked in White and Yellow pages. Could you give us their phone number?
Cheers,
Pete

Hi Cured,
A1 Machinery have a web site "www.aclasswm.com" ph 0245776685. I did check out several other units ,Carbatec,Ledacraft etc but went with A1 as it was a good quality Italian three speed unit. Ledacraft do have quite a few under the Co-Matic brand.
Cheers,
Paintman

Originally Posted by PaintMan

Hi Cured,
A1 Machinery have a web site "www.aclasswm.com" ph 0245776685. I did check out several other units ,Carbatec,Ledacraft etc but went with A1 as it was a good quality Italian three speed unit. Ledacraft do have quite a few under the Co-Matic brand.
Cheers,
Paintman

Thanks for this info...
Cheers,
Pete

Originally Posted by Cured

Hi! There appear to be no newer threads for spindle moulders than 2009, so I'm starting a new thread.

I have ordered a new spindle moulder and hopefully be getting delivery within the next few weeks. This is my first spindle moulder and have had only router table experience. I would welcome any input tips to use and safety. And, as yet I have'nt purchase any tooling for the 30mm dia spindle moulder, I would greatly appreciate any information on what to buy and where.
One of my first projects planned is to replace the plain kitchen doors with wood paneled... thanks...

Pete

Hi Pete.
Thanks for kicking this off, so many horror stories about the spindle moulder and no wonder when you see the risks being taken with tooling that came out of the dark ages.
The modern "Euro" cutter blocks that come with locating pins, limiters and wedges are just about foolproof, they are also designated Manual or mechanical feed for further safeguard.
The cutters and blocks come in 40 or 50mm sizes and the max rotation speed is marked on them. There are over 100 standard profiles plus blanks so you can have your own profile ground.
CMT do a downloadable chart showing the knife number and the profile it produces.
As to where to buy have you looked outside Oz? CMT cutters + limiters retail in NZ for NZ$ 71.40 plus postage, I have had some CMT sent over from the UK for NZ$ 30.00 + 10 bucks for postage, ok they take a week to 10 days to arrive, buy more than 1 set, combine the postage and the savings are even bigger!

Try Wealden Tool Company Limited Rebate 191 (40x4) they sell Trend blocks and cutters (made in Italy) and in my view the quality is the same as CMT.
Look at the export price and a set of knives + limiters is about $20.00 plus a bit for postage. Their service is top notch, I bought a block and several sets, packages really well and delivered quickly, can't fault them or the product.
Also good old Axminster, their standards should be the model for any retailer, fabulous service with good pricing. Euro Block & Cutters products from Axminster
Their Axcaliber brand is also first class, bit more money at $26.00 but still a bargain, postage is very quick as well. Search the forum and you will find other people use them regularly.

I have also scored cutter blocks and limiters from E-bay. I got an unused Freud steel block and 19 sets of cutters for just over $200.00 including postage. Couldn't buy the block for that.

I don't buy used blocks or tooling, that is purely personal preference, I have great respect for my spindle moulder albeit a cheap 3 hp Chinese job. I don't have a power feed( would love one)
Snipe happens, I just make allowances in stock lengths. I use the guards, rollers and featherboards and do the same as with my table saw, keep your hands out of the areas they should not be in. With a correctly fitted block and cutters the danger factor is probably the same as using the saw. I don't have a router table, but see lots of adverts for collet extensions, stick one of those on
your router, whack in a big cutter, mount it upside down in the table plunge it to full depth and spin it up to 20,000 rpm. Now that sounds risky to me.
I am not anti router, I have an Elu in the woodrat (right way up) and a Trend for hand work. I merely want to point out out that SMs are not dangerous if used properly with correct tooling.

Rant over, enjoy your moulder and have fun selecting profiles, oh by the way my cheapie came with a HF blue ally block and 6 cutters, block is ok but used as last resort, the cutters were nice and shiny and experimenting with them on the fishing side as lures, have to careful though as with all soft blunt pieces of metal !!

Cheers
Chris

Originally Posted by Gyroman

Hi Pete.
Thanks for kicking this off, so many horror stories about the spindle moulder and no wonder when you see the risks being taken with tooling that came out of the dark ages....

Rant over, enjoy your moulder and have fun selecting profiles, oh by the way my cheapie came with a HF blue ally block and 6 cutters, block is ok but used as last resort, the cutters were nice and shiny and experimenting with them on the fishing side as lures, have to careful though as with all soft blunt pieces of metal !!

Cheers
Chris

Thanks Chris for this info, as a matter of fact I just ordered the 'blue' HF cutter thinking the value of the block was worth just the price! I might can the order?

Yeah, I've checked out CMT Oz cutter sets with limiters are $55~$75 and I have found Axminster but not Wealden. Checked out the site, very impressed and explained a lot, would have certainly blundered into the Manual or Mechanical Feed mine field before reading the great explanations in use of each block and cutters.

I'm getting the same SM as yourself, I'm not disappointed on the delayed shipping as I have still a few machines to assemble and align and am pleased to hear you're happy with your acquisition. I have found JET Power Feeder offering what I thing is a good price on a power Feeders? Yes the speeds are correct almost 1/2 that from an AF308, interested what you think about it? my other choice is a Maggi Steff 2034 considerable dearer almost 1/2 the price again.
Pete

I managed to find a Robland X 31 second hand, however it came with no cutter heads or knives for the 1&1/4" arbor spindle moulder.

Today however - I was lucky enough to find a cabinet shop closing down - and bought all his cutter heads and tooling.











It would seem that short a power feeder, I am almost ready to go...

I'm thinking a copy of the 2 aforementioned spindle moulder books might be a worthwhile investment first however.

It's not that I haven't used a spindle moulder before, - I owned this Robland's smaller brother the X 260, which is just the X 310 minus its jointer and thicknesser for 20 years. So I'm not overly worried about adapting to this X 31....it shouldn't be too big a learning curve hopefully.

I did read above about using the collet chuck and router bits on a spindle moulder and it's not an idea that enthuses me at all.

Spindle moulders typically run around either 3000 or 6000 rpms....(and the heads are usually designed to run in that speed range) while - a router will normally run at speeds around double that of 12,000rpm's....

So putting router bits on a spindle moulder is spinning them a lot slower than they are designed for!

The larger diameter of a spindle moulder head, means that the larger circumference traveling at half the speed of a much smaller circumference router bit, the cutting blade on the spindle moulder head is probably traveling around the same cutting speed as a router bit with the smaller diameter and circumference's cutter blade.

However when you put the smaller diameter and thus circumference router bit into the collet chuck on a spindle moulder - the cutters are probably only traveling at 6000 rpms spindle speed, at only half the designed working speed, and if the spindle were set at 3000 rpms then only 1/4 the designed working speed?.

I am just thinking that the potential for injury might be higher if the removal of wood is greater than the design factor with normal stock feed rates, due to reduced cutting speed of the router bit?

i.e. the kickback potential could be exponentially higher as but one example?.

I could be wrong and stand to be corrected if anyone knows different.

I think I was very lucky to score all these leitz cutter blocks today...

Cheers!

Good score. I would be hesitant to use all bar the cutter head with removable cutters without a power feed.

With router bits, my SM has 2 speed ranges, 8K and 10 K. Using larger router bits is the norm.

You have to be 110% alert and sure of what you are doing, with SM's and use every device to limit danger.

A power feed is on my list, as well as a helical head for the jointer / thicknesser.

I've managed 20 years using a spindle moulder without a power feed, however having said that, I've always fabricated wooden fingers to apply the pressure near the moulder head, and always made it a 2 man operation, 1 feeding in and 1 tailing out, so that human hands need never get anywhere near the actual head... My golden rule has always been no hands past the edge of the feed in and feed out table, and its always worked for me...

Things like bow head doors, where the shaped panel runs on a bearing on top of the moulder head across the arched top etc - is just asking for trouble in my book and I just won't do it coz the risks too high for me personally.

There's probably a safe way to do it...but I'd need to be shown and convinced before I'd adopt it.

I'm usually VERY cautious about spindle moulders!.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

a helical head for the jointer / thicknesser.

I'll be interested how much that costs you. I would like to get one for my machines too