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Thread: Which Thicknesser?
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7th January 2021, 11:22 AM #1Senior Member
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Which Thicknesser?
Hi all,
Sometime this year we will be milling a heap of timber on our farm (most likely a Lucas Mill contractor). The end use will be structural timbers, joinery, and decking. Most of my wood work experience to date is in structural stuff or panel products (ply etc) so I mostly get stuff that is the same thickness, flat etc - lots to learn obviously.
There will be some 200x200 post at the largest (also 150x150 and 100x100), and probably a lot of 50x150, plus miles of decking and smaller sections as needed. We might do some wider boards, say 200-300 for the joinery timbers (blue gum and spotted gum). Lengths up to 6m.
End use for the joinery will likely be cabinets (book cases, panel doors etc)
The structural stuff will be outdoors - pergolas, decking, a dam jetty etc
We're doing some budgets and trying to work out a thicknesser to dress all of that.
I've not really done much joinery work with wide sections before e.g. panel doors, what is the process? thickness down to whatever (say 20mm), join, then what? sand or hand plane the joint if needed? I'm trying to work out thicknesser width here. Is it ok to have a narrower thicknesser and then either sand by hand or get a wide drum sander?
If it doesn't need to be stupid wide, we still want it to be fairly powerful so it doesn't to take days on end to complete the work.
We don't have 3 phase, so if that was needed we'd have to get a generator for it. Otherwise single phase is ok - solar and 10kva generator.
I'm thinking one of the 15" models. Maybe Carbatec? Laguna? others? spiral head?
I've not really got a cost in mind. More need to understand what the trade offs might be from say $2k-$5k-more
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7th January 2021, 12:49 PM #2Senior Member
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What about a combination machine such as a Woodfast or similar, say a 300mm machine.
Just under 4k
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7th January 2021, 07:20 PM #3
Something with a Byrd Shelix Cutterhead...
I have a bench top Dewalt DW735 with one, with the upgrade, a good machine became a great machine...
It sounds like a smaller machine than you're chasing but if you can get the Byrd Shelix Cutterhead in the machine you eventually purchase.
Cheers, crowie
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7th January 2021, 07:52 PM #4GOLD MEMBER
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Surely you're going to need to joint the rough sawn stuff before thicknessing? Otherwise you'll just end up with perfectly dimensioned skew bits.
Combo machines like the hammer A3 or woodfast would do, but the problem is that you can then only do one process at a time - if you've got two people working, and a separate jointer and thicknesser you can do the work in half the time.
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7th January 2021, 09:58 PM #5Senior Member
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7th January 2021, 11:24 PM #6Taking a break
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Don't forget to factor in dust collection; 2hp is minimum viable, don't even consider a 1hp collector.
Helical head is a HUGE advantage, not just for noise and finish, but also for managing chip size on wide boards.
For the kind of volume you're talking, I'd be going for a 15" machine as I don't think a benchtop type machine will handle it and some of the 15" models have in-table rollers which is basically a must for wet timber (unless you feel like waxing the table every few minutes); the only downside is you need 15A power. You'll still be limited to 150mm height unless you go to an even bigger machine.
Also keep in mind that is will be SLOW going as you'll be stuck with 6m/min feed and a 1-2mm depth of cut unless you go to an industrial 3-phase machine.
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8th January 2021, 10:41 AM #7Senior Member
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8th January 2021, 11:10 AM #8Taking a break
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3-phase gives you access to more powerful machines that are designed to remove a lot of material fast. The downside is that the cost goes up in to 5-figure territory because, aside from the machines costing more, you also need bigger dust collection capability to cope with the higher material removal rate plus a generator.
Something like this will go up to 16 m/min Used 2017 rikon 23-530H Thicknesser in Mullumbimby , NSW
It all comes down to how much you're willing/able to spend
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8th January 2021, 07:46 PM #9GOLD MEMBER
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It would be helpful to say where you are, I have a nice jointer and a thicknesser coming up for sale soon, single phase, they would be suitable.
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9th January 2021, 08:24 AM #10Senior Member
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Hunter Valley - we're not really in the market, just trying to work out what this exercise will cost and put that line in our budget.
My gut says go 3 phase, but its unlikely we'll have the coin for a $10k generator (at some point we'll be building another shed and it wont have power, so will need a genset for that)....this then changes our whole planned work for a period of 2-3 years....lots of "if we have that, then we can do that", "if we dont, then we do, this, this, this" etc
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9th January 2021, 09:34 AM #11GOLD MEMBER
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I’ve had this “ no 3 phase power” discussion with many woodworkers. To run poles and overhead supply cables to a shed, which in most cases is remote from the road and the house, for arguments sakes average out to $45,000.
Thats a fair whack of dough.
Ive seen perfectly good, big generator units, diesel,3 phase, go for under $5000 at auction and online auctions, regularly. That gives you $40,000 left over to buy fuel for it, and you wouldn’t use that much in 3 lifetimes, so it’s a no brainer really.
There’s heaps of good,older, robust machines available, in both 3 phase and single phase, personally, I believe they are better, cheaper, and last longer. You’re wasting money buying something new, when an older machine can do the exact same job, quite often better. I like your thinking in the forward sense of planning for which machines to buy etc. I have a shed at Somersby, PM me if you like,we can chat.
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9th January 2021, 01:55 PM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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I have thought about moving my shed to a farm, have 3 phase installed is the proper way to go. Its an investment and its always there, in future if you ever want to sell your property, you have 3 phase installed, you have more buyers.
3 phase machines are best way to go, old 3 phase machines are better in every way (and cheaper) than shiny new single phase machine, single phase machines are designed for professional artisan or hobbyist.
There are some machines only comes in 3 phase, such as wide belt sander.
My first wide belt sander is a 30-40 yo 920mm SCM unit, in a very tidy condition, think I bought it for $1500 NZD.
It was a hard decision to go 3 phase at the beginning just looking at the cost. but if you can make $ from your wood works, you will never look back.SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12
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10th January 2021, 08:26 PM #13
IF I had time over again, I would purchase S/H 3 phase generator and other machinery all S/H
hard part set a target of what you will need in the way of timber, get it all done then sell off equipment again...if you could see yourself letting it goI would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds
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