Thread: traditional framing

Traditional framing is where you Trench in the housings for the studs in "green" timber that would have only ever been straight off the Millers Saw bench.
The reason for trenching is 2 fold. The green timber would never be consistently cut to a thickness. The saw would "pull" the timber or the timber would wander slightly in and out from the saws fence. So the sawn timber you bought would only be "nominally" accurate in thickness.
So to be sure that the Carpenter could put together a wall that was parallel from one end to the other, in height, he would use a radial arm saw to trench out the plates to suit the width of the studs. A Trenching Head would be put in place of the circular saw and a 10mm deep trench would be effortlessly cut into the plates. I have 2 trenching heads to suit my radial arm saws. One is made to cut only 2" (52mm) while the other is adjustable from about 1½" (38mm) to 2¼" ( 56mm). The trenching heads are made of brass with Carbon Steel cutters to perform the trenching. The trenching process done this way with a radial arm and a trenching head "thicknessed" the plate to a uniform measurement.
Now that the favoured wall framing material is dressed Radiata the need for trenching is not required because the timber is guaranteed thickness from one end to the other. My personal preference is still to trench the studs in because it will stop the studs twisting and the wall is "stiffer" to handle due to the studs not being able to move in the trench. I will add some pix of the trenching heads when I venture out to the shed later

The reasons for a trenched plate
1) Being sawn timber which varies in thickness and width, it is crucial to have a uniform thickness to achieve a straight top plate for the ceiling and cornice and uniform wall height. The trenching (housing) is registered from the opposite face to the trench.

2) The depth of the trench (housing) is determined by the thinnest plate to be used on the job less approx 2mm which means that some could be 10mm deep where the plates are thicker. The caveat on this is the effective finished thickness at the housing MUST be capable of carrying the design loads to be imposed on the plate BETWEEN the studs.

3) A radial arm saw is normally used to house the plates using either a set of standard dado blades or an adjustable trenching head or fixed width dado heads.

4) The junction of walls were also scarfed joints (half lapped) with the walls running left / right scarfed on the same side as the housing and the walls running front / rear the opposite side.

Modern framing is not normally housed because the timber is sized (dressed) all round (DAR) having a tolerance of +/- 0.25mm. There are a few rare framing companies that still house their plates even thou the timber is sized, these companies are renowned for their superior quality and strength of frames and enjoy a secound to none reputation.

Traditional framing also had structural heads (lintels) and sills (ledgers) housed into their respective studs and this was min 20mm and max 1/3 thickness of the stud, the thickness of the stud determined by the span. Modern framing today has primary full height studs with jack or trimmer studs supporting them fixed to the primary studs.

Thanks Fellas

Would 4"x 2" hardwood be the timber of choice?

Yes 4" X 2" (100 X 50mm)Hardwood would make a very acceptable frame. The width is strong to give the rigidity for an external wall subjected to the elements ie-wind and rain,driving storms etc. Now depending on local conditions and what material the outside will be clad in the rule book would say that the stud would be set at 600mm (2') centres. But if higher than normal winds are common maybe centres of 450mm (18") would be more appropriate. Also if it was to be abuild of 2 stories then I would go for 450 centres to carry the weight of the upper floor and roof.
I prefer to use 50mm (2") thick studs so you have more area to secure sheet materials on the vertical surfaces. 35mm (1½") is allowable under the code for single story dwellings
Just a tip from my bag of experience....Knock up the wall minus noggings and any heavy heads over openings....why.....It will be lighter to lift and manoeuvre into position. Then add the noggings and heads and braces. I remember when I first came to Tamworth after my apprenticeship, we cut out and knocked up a Tallowood Frame. We couldn't lift it without first using levers to get it up. Very good frame but bloody heavy

As promised here is a shot of the adjustable Trenching Head in the sawmaster

Again, thanks for the info.

Any recomendations as to the RAS would be a great help, maybe even guestimate price.

I looked at a 14" supersaw yesterday, not in bad nick. Wanted $1100, no blades or trencher.?
Maybe a wanted in the marketplace would yield an acceptable machine.

Cheers

My 2 Radial Arms are of 50s manufacture. One is a SawMaster and the other MBT. I wouldn't pay $1100 for one. Ebay has them on from time to time. I would only be spending $00 not $000. You may even fluke one with a trenching head.
Just as another thought about a "good frame", where are here the white ants are very active and because of that my preference in my area is for Cypress Pine. I built the house 33years ago. Slightly paranoid, I used Cypress for bearers, joists, some flooring ceiling joist rafters for the roof and roof battens. I didn't stop there either, I milled up door jambs as well as skirtings and architraves. Guess what.....no sign of the blighters on the house but still find raiding parties eating Hardwood blocks of firewood.
When doing frames I reckon it is like shearing sheep. At the end of a hard day you are dirty and sweaty with a sore back but you can see something for your efforts

Chambezio is on the right track, but whatever you build has to meet the code and be certified, your stud spacing will be determined by a) wind category b) certified stress grade of timber c) single or multi storey d) roofing material (sheet or tile) e) roof structure (truss / conventional pitched on site / spans & strutting point loads.
Bracing requirements are a lot stricter now, checking into studs for timber braces is not allowed any more, only speed brace or strap or sheet bracing.

If you want to ignore the codes then you have to submit your design to a structural engineer for certification.

I dont know what you intend building but bear in mind that Hdwd is a lot dearer than mgp pine.
Nailing it together will be an issue as well, forget the gas nail guns, they dont have the balls to get the nails in, compressor and aair guns are the go with the pressure set high, but seeing you want traditional, swing that hammer and don't choke the handle and make sure you got hair oil on so you can run the nails through your hair and then you can drive them in without bending them.
Fresh green sawn hdwd is a pita, the sap stains, gets on head of hammer and slips off nails.

Important point to remember, when nailing frames together, keep the one edge of stud and plate flush, usually inside edge of external walls and living area side of internal walls, reason= thats the side you see most of and thats the side you want the straightest, and use your worst bowed studs for intersections (contrary to popular practice) because you can use the intersection blocking to nail them straight, use your straightest studs for door / arch openings and keep all studs with bow on the same side.

As well as the radial arm saw there are portable trenching machines.

They are like a big heavy duty electric planer but belt driven. You can get a multitude of cutter sizes and the can cut up to about 30mm deep.

Mine is a Makita. I don't know if they still make them or not.

Originally Posted by chambezio

My 2 Radial Arms are of 50s manufacture. One is a SawMaster and the other MBT. I wouldn't pay $1100 for one. Ebay has them on from time to time. I would only be spending $00 not $000. You may even fluke one with a trenching head.
Just as another thought about a "good frame", where are here the white ants are very active and because of that my preference in my area is for Cypress Pine. I built the house 33years ago. Slightly paranoid, I used Cypress for bearers, joists, some flooring ceiling joist rafters for the roof and roof battens. I didn't stop there either, I milled up door jambs as well as skirtings and architraves. Guess what.....no sign of the blighters on the house but still find raiding parties eating Hardwood blocks of firewood.
When doing frames I reckon it is like shearing sheep. At the end of a hard day you are dirty and sweaty with a sore back but you can see something for your efforts

Not sure about sourcing cypress in my neck of the woods, but I could look into it.
Timbers of choice here are Tallowood, white mahogany or blackbutt.
Is cypress really the pick ?
There are 3 or 4 big timber mills within spitting distance, so sourcing material should not be a problem.
There are 10 or 20 logging trucks rolling down the main street every day. I might hijack one. only joking.

Originally Posted by rwbuild

Chambezio is on the right track, but whatever you build has to meet the code and be certified, your stud spacing will be determined by a) wind category b) certified stress grade of timber c) single or multi storey d) roofing material (sheet or tile) e) roof structure (truss / conventional pitched on site / spans & strutting point loads.
Bracing requirements are a lot stricter now, checking into studs for timber braces is not allowed any more, only speed brace or strap or sheet bracing.
I am just hatching a plan at this point in time, but if I go this way it will all be done by the book.

If you want to ignore the codes then you have to submit your design to a structural engineer for certification.
Ignore the codes? struth, it's hard enough to follow as it is with trying to go outside the boundaries.

I dont know what you intend building but bear in mind that Hdwd is a lot dearer than mgp pine.
Nailing it together will be an issue as well, forget the gas nail guns, they dont have the balls to get the nails in, compressor and aair guns are the go with the pressure set high, but seeing you want traditional, swing that hammer and don't choke the handle and make sure you got hair oil on so you can run the nails through your hair and then you can drive them in without bending them.
Fresh green sawn hdwd is a pita, the sap stains, gets on head of hammer and slips off nails.
Hair ? What's that ?
I can swing a hammer, but I'm not that traditional.

Important point to remember, when nailing frames together, keep the one edge of stud and plate flush, usually inside edge of external walls and living area side of internal walls, reason= thats the side you see most of and thats the side you want the straightest, and use your worst bowed studs for intersections (contrary to popular practice) because you can use the intersection blocking to nail them straight, use your straightest studs for door / arch openings and keep all studs with bow on the same side.

I won't give up too much of the plan yet, just in case it doesn't work out.
But I was thinking of cutting the timber myself.

And I do understand the rules re the codes and certification.
I don't intend to go off half cocked, this has been in the planning stages for 2 years.

Thanks for the replies so far

Another consideration with green timber is the weight.

I was working on a hertiage listed building some years ago and we replaced some of the floor joist. I could carry out 3 joists at a time. They were maybe 100 years old and bery dry. There was no way I could even carry 2 joists back in.

Unless I was getting the timber free I cant see any reason I would use green timber today other than complying with some specification such as hertiage listing or something like that.

MGP is consistent and if you choose your stuff it is straight.

Green timber can move a lot as it dries, shrinage rates very and I just dont facy building straight walls with it.

I have always trenched my plates on site without use of a radial arm saw. Personally I dont like the radial arm saw. If your timber does not sit flat your trenches can very in depth considerably. A hand held trencher runs on the surface of your timber and takes seconds to adjust. You can even adjust quickly between each cut if you found that an issue.

I have on some jobs used a circular saw and router in the early days before I had a trencher. That is tedious by comparison but if you are seriously considering using green timber sounds like you have plenty of time on your hands.


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Something else to consider when building with green hardwood, you need to build in stages so as to let the timber settle. Otherwise you end up with a rather wonky and unsquare house. Nothing looks worse than seeing someone using green timber and a couple of months later all the joins are separated due to shrinkage