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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Melbourne
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    128

    Default Upgrade to a spiral head, or buy two separate machines?

    Folks,

    I have a legacy Carbatec AW106PT (now called TJ-250P) - a 10" combo jointer/thicknesser. I'm generally quite impressed with the unit, although some of the harder and longer timber I process can be tricky - tear-outs, sniping, etc. Changing between modes is also a minor bugbear.

    I could upgrade my existing unit to a true spiral helix head for ~$700, which would put my total cost of ownership at a pretty reasonable amount. Alternatively, I could put the money towards buying a separate machine (either jointer or thicky) with traditional knives, to avoid having to switch machine modes.

    I guess what I'm asking is: whether the benefit provided by the shelix head would outweigh the minor inconvenience of having to switch machine modes all the time.

    Thanks in advance



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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    34
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    6,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by railer View Post
    I guess what I'm asking is: whether the benefit provided by the shelix head would outweigh the minor inconvenience of having to switch machine modes all the time.
    Never used a combo before, so I don't know how much of a pain it is to switch modes, but helical heads are pretty much the best thing ever.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    997

    Default

    I have a combi and I have sprial cutter block on mine, If I had space and money I would gone for separate. but combi you do get the benefit of 2 machine into 1. I cant justify spending $$$ on a 500mm wide jointer, cos I rarely need it. but when I do, its really handy.

    To me, the spiral cutter block is more important than switching modes. besides, I dont have space anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have a combi and I have sprial cutter block on mine, If I had space and money I would gone for separate. but combi you do get the benefit of 2 machine into 1. I cant justify spending $$$ on a 500mm wide jointer, cos I rarely need it. but when I do, its really handy.

    To me, the spiral cutter block is more important than switching modes. besides, I dont have space anyway.
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  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    337

    Default

    I have a jet 260mm combo machine like yours with straight knives. There is no way I would ever retrofit a helical into it because (a) I have already got a cutter head in the machine and I couldn’t sell it, only scrap it (b) there are better things to do with my time than stuff around trying to install it and it needs to be very precisely aligned to the outfeed table because the insert knives are fixed, not set to the outfeed each time (c) there are many things I’d rather spend the money on in the workshop with more benefit

    I don’t care much about having straight knives at the moment because I use a drum sander after planing for the face side of my boards...a drum sander is an amazing tool and can do several things a spiral head thicknesser can’t (sand, flatten wide panels and slabs, sand veneer to precise thickness etc) with no snipe and no tear out (no matter the grain direction.

    If I were you I would definitely save the $700 and put it into a drum sander rather than spiral or separates. If in the future you want or need to buy a bigger combo like a 310, I would recommend getting it with a helical head at purchase.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    337

    Default

    Duplicate post

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Darkest NSW
    Posts
    3,198

    Default

    Ditto - I considered converting my JET JPT310 to a helical cutterhead. Mine is the old straight blade type, because the HH version didn't exist back then. Would have been well over $1000 (and that was years ago), but I bought a JET 16-32 drum sander instead. One of my better decisions.

    MUCH more useful; there are still some timbers and grain combos that a helical head can't handle well (burl??), but a drum sander does everything. Especially good for creating thin sections for laminating, sanding wide panels, you name it.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Age
    64
    Posts
    212

    Default

    I think it depends on the type of work you do. I have a combi unit with straight knives, and a drum sander.
    For my money, finish is the real issue. The sooner I can get the level of finish you desire the happier I am.
    For my money (if I had it), spiral blades would get me there quicker, with less effort.
    But, like i said, it depends on what you do/make with your machinery.
    Caveat. I have a magnetic gauge base, dial gauges etc, and I still hate changing/adjusting straight blades. I mean I really hate it.
    Another reason my money would go towards a spiral head.


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  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
    Posts
    720

    Default

    I have Carbatec 10x8 combination machine, Chinese made, including the spiral head. The finish from this machine is near flawless but changeover to and from thicknessing mode is a real pain as the bed has to be wound down to 130mm when changing back to surfacing mode to allow the chip collector to swing back under the machine.
    My thicknessing work is done on a 15" Carbatec thicknesser with a "spiral"head but not a true spiral head as in the combination machine and this one leaves grooves in the finish which require sanding out by ROS or drum sander.
    I would never go back to straight knives despite the cost of the inserts for the spiral heads, even though changing them is tedious but simple.
    My combination machine uses radiused inserts and the 15" machine are straight.

    I did track down the manufaturer of my spiral head on Alibaba some years back so chinese manufactured spiral heads can be very good if you can find a good supplier.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    perth
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Ideally having a dedicated machine for specific tasks would be the preferred option but it also adds to the maintenance cost, additional cleaning, space and another concern would be dust control. The main thing for me would be the last two points mentioned, having to allow space and material feed for two machines and additional routing for dust control....if you go down the dedicated route.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mt Crosby, Brisbane
    Posts
    2,548

    Default

    FWIW I've got an electra beckum. I believe some of the other 10" combos are copies of this design. I love mine and it takes minutes to switch.

    Problems:

    Setting the knives properly after sharpening. Blessed nuisance. This is probably the biggest reason I'd look at a spiral head.

    Tearout and snipe. You can minimise it but it will always be a problem with knives.

    Ribbon "chips" clog everything I've tried to use to catch them. Blessed bother. So a third good reason to go spiral.

    graham.murfett above hits the nail on the head. Depends on your circumstances. I spend whole days running boards through my machine. Plane for ages then thickness. If you have the luxury of organising yourself that way a combo is wonderful. For those occasions when 10" isn't enough there is the router sled. I absolutely could not justify the cost or space for separate machines. So far I've put off the upgrade, but I keep it very much in mind.

    2c.
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  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Western Australia
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    77
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    Default

    very hard to look past spiral heads with regards to finish cut ,would have to be a serious consideration.
    Johnno

    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,857

    Default

    Ugh, this is a horrible decision to have to make! Is there some kind of third option where you stick it out with what you have now, clip coupons, mow some lawns, sell chopping boards at the local market, and buy the two machines with spiral cutters?

    One thing I'd worry about is losing width. If you switch to two machines, you're likely to end up with a wider thicknesser but a more narrow jointer. That's a shame.

    Have you considered just upgrading your combo machine altogether so that you can get one with a helical cutter block but which is also wider and designed for easier changing between techniques? The Hammer machines (A3-31 and A3-41) are supposed to be the proverbial bee's knees.

    At the very least I'd try to maintain the same width of cut on the jointer. I think you'll miss those two inches if you downsize to an 8".

    Cheers,
    Luke

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