Thread: Cost of reticulated compressed air

Originally Posted by ian

using compressed air to blow the surface dust, shavings, etc into the shed's air

It's not so bad if they do it and have the dust extractor running with the all the vents open.

The problem with our new mens shed is is the large volume (17 000 cubic ft) so even a true 2000 cfm DC will not be venting it very quickly.

Originally Posted by BobL

I dunno yet, this info is going to the committee next week.
Good tip about the "plumbers rate" and one of the mens shed members is a former plumber so I will ask him tomorrow.

One vote for copper,

I cannot see how many changes you could need to make with an air system that has multiple drops throughout the shop.

if its not quite in the right spot you would have a flexible hose connected on the end anyway.

unless I'm missing something here?

A mate of mine in Canada went the whole plastic lines with changeable connectors etc... and he likes it because of the flexible nature of the system. but I've never seen him modify the design in the last 5 years so the whole "flexibility" of the system seemed a solution for a non existent problem.

my 2 cents

Steve

Originally Posted by stevepay

One vote for copper,

I cannot see how many changes you could need to make with an air system that has multiple drops throughout the shop. . . . .

Ordinarily I would agree.
However, even though have not even moved into the shed, there is already talk of
-installing a mezzanine floor
- after a suitable period of use of one room to turn it into another purpose.
- Installing an air driven machine or two in the middle of the shed.

I don't want to be second guessing where all this possibly might go while I'm installing the first system so the chance of changes being required is higher than most..

Originally Posted by BobL

Ordinarily I would agree.
However, even though have not even moved into the shed, there is already talk of
-installing a mezzanine floor
- after a suitable period of use of one room to turn it into another purpose.
- Installing an air driven machine or two in the middle of the shed.

I don't want to be second guessing where all this possibly might go while I'm installing the first system so the chance of changes being required is higher than most..

given those considerations, I suggest you place the line as close to the roof as possible, with drain valves around floor level.
Vertical drops could service either a mezzanine or the ground floor.

as mentioned earlier you'll need a dryer if you want to run a plasma cutter or sprayer.

BUT
"-- installing an air driven machine or two ..." gives me pause
how much air is the air driven motor likely to require? My only experience is with motors hooked up to a compressor that could deliver >500 cfm

Originally Posted by ian

given those considerations, I suggest you place the line as close to the roof as possible, with drain valves around floor level.Vertical drops could service either a mezzanine or the ground floor.as mentioned earlier you'll need a dryer if you want to run a plasma cutter or sprayer.BUT"-- installing an air driven machine or two ..." gives me pausehow much air is the air driven motor likely to require? My only experience is with motors hooked up to a compressor that could deliver >500 cfm

It's most unlikely the line would be placed up close to the roof.
The shed roof is quite high (4.2m on one side and 4.8m high on the other side) so the additional cost of pipe for 10 drop downs starts to be very significant

The other problem is when a mezzanine floor goes in. We are also not sure where this floor will be or what activities will take place on that floor. One talk is for a computer room where it's unlikely that air will be needed.

Because of this the plan is to run the line around the walls ~2.1 m above the floor which should clear the mezzanine floor beams etc.

RE: Machines.
I was referring to "machines" that use pressure as opposed to "motors" that use flow, e.g. guillotine.

Originally Posted by BobL

It's most unlikely the line would be placed up close to the roof.
The shed roof is quite high (4.2m on one side and 4.8m high on the other side) so the additional cost of pipe for 10 drop downs starts to be very significant

makes sense

Originally Posted by BobL

The other problem is when a mezzanine floor goes in. We are also not sure where this floor will be or what activities will take place on that floor. One talk is for a computer room where it's unlikely that air will be needed.

this is starting to sound like a "clean" or at least semi-clean room. Perhaps you'll want to think of using piped air to provide a degree of overpressure to keep dust out?
or supply air to a 3-D printer or CNC set-up

Computer rooms are becoming so "last century"
I think the future -- even with donated gear will be wireless networking and probably laptops or tablets.

Originally Posted by BobL

Because of this the plan is to run the line around the walls ~2.1 m above the floor which should clear the mezzanine floor beams etc.

unless you need to clear doorways, etc perhaps run the line at knee height -- or waist height if there will be lots of quick connectors.

Remember to run the line so that it slopes down to a drain point

Originally Posted by ian

this is starting to sound like a "clean" or at least semi-clean room. Perhaps you'll want to think of using piped air to provide a degree of overpressure to keep dust out?
or supply air to a 3-D printer or CNC set-up Computer rooms are becoming so "last century"
I think the future -- even with donated gear will be wireless networking and probably laptops or tablets.

l also a place to do some electronics projects.

unless you need to clear doorways, etc perhaps run the line at knee height -- or waist height if there will be lots of quick connectors.

Apart from 7 doorways, 5 windows and a couple of 1m wide spots, 900 mm high benches will be placed up against all the walls and we have something like 25, 2 drawer filing cabinets to go under the benches. The filing cabinets will be used for individual member project storage. This is why I''m looking at 2.1m high with a drop down to bench height level.

Remember to run the line so that it slopes down to a drain point[/QUOTE]
Yep - we're onto that.

I would consider a flexible dropdown from the main air supply so if members are stretching the air hose when using sanders, their would be a bit of give. hope this makes sense.

Originally Posted by Wood Collector

I would consider a flexible dropdown from the main air supply so if members are stretching the air hose when using sanders, their would be a bit of give. hope this makes sense.

That's the plan and is reasonable for a mainline height of ~2.1m which is similar to what I have in my shed where I have 2.2m. This makes it still possible for me to disconnect the air line and also test the junction for leaks without getting out a ladder..

If you a piping your air with the air line high in the shed, then my advice is that your drop downs should extend at least 1m below where you draw your air with a tap to purge the water, it is more efficient than a water trap pressure reg. The pipe will not be straight and the water will gather in the hollows.
The place where I have worked for the last 13 years has this system without the water traps and we have terrible trouble with water, it seems to create more than the watertrap gauges can cope with.

I hope I have explained clearly enough.


Rob

Originally Posted by specialist

If you a piping your air with the air line high in the shed, then my advice is that your drop downs should extend at least 1m below where you draw your air with a tap to purge the water, it is more efficient than a water trap pressure reg. The pipe will not be straight and the water will gather in the hollows.
The place where I have worked for the last 13 years has this system without the water traps and we have terrible trouble with water, it seems to create more than the watertrap gauges can cope with.

I hope I have explained clearly enough.
Rob

Yep I get it.
That is one approach we are considering the other is to not install horizontal pipe but to install it at slight slopes across each wall nd install taps at the end of the slopes.
The drop downs are installed so they don't drop down immediately but go upwards before they go down. This prevents water draining into the drop down.
We are also adding an auto tank purge facility that will vent the tank for x seconds every Y minutes.
These can be bought on Ebay for about $30

That makes sense, it's always good to find another way to do something.