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  1. #1
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    Default Dust extractor electrical query

    G'day all,

    I've just put together my FM300 2hp dust extractor - hooked up to a table saw a router table and a drill press. I wanted to arrange the electricals so I could easily turn on the dusty then start working on the machines without having to walk from one end of the workshop to the other. So I bought a powerboard with an on/off switch, set it up central to the 3 machines, and plugged the power cords from the dusty, the drill press and the router into this board. Now I figured if I leave the dusty switch on I could lean over and turn on the powerboard which would connect power to the dusty and start it back up, then I can turn on the machine I'm using.

    Problem is that if I turn on the dusty, then switch off the power to the powerboard, when I return power to the powerboard the dusty stays off - I need to press the green button on the dusty again to get the engine running.

    Anyone have any idea how I can get the dusty to turn on when power is supplied rather than using the on/off switch?

    Cheers,
    Adam

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  3. #2
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    G'day Adam,

    I will be setting mine up next week. Was going to get from Aldi the Home Automation Kit for $39.99 with radio frequency remote but not sure now if this will be a pointless exercise. It may be worth a try for $40. Keep us posted.
    Cheers,
    Paul

  4. #3
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    Jun 2005
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    It sounds like you have a soft on switch (safety mechanism to prevent plugging something in and it starting). It will only turn on if you press the green button regardless of how it was turned off.

    Basically you can not do what you want.

    Unless you get it rewired with a hard on/off switch ( which will cost too much)

    Get a big stick so you can press the green button from the various machines.

  5. #4
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  6. #5
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    That doesn't help him at all.

    The problem is that the switch on the dust extractor will not allow you to leave it switched on, turn off the power at the socket, then turn it back on and have the dusty start up again. They are specifically designed to prevent that.

    The only solution to your problem (apart from the long stick) is to have the dusty rewired with a hard switch that can be left on.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Default

    Yep, what SC said. I think they are called 'zero voltage' switches.

    or maybe 'no voltage switches'

    Cheers
    Michael
    Last edited by mic-d; 28th October 2008 at 01:11 PM. Reason: alternative name added

  8. #7
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    Nov 2006
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    Default

    Chumley, I had the same problem, except I wanted to switch the DC on/off with a radio frequency remote control.

    I overcame the "soft switch" problem by taking it off the DC and swapping it with the one on my MC900 wood lathe, which still had a simple on/off switch. Fortunately they both fitted the same opening and having the "soft switch" on the lathe makes more sense anyway.

    I switch several things on and off with remote contril, including the shed sound system

  9. #8
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    Default

    Much obliged - might take a look at the switch and see how complicated it is. I guess this has been done before, especially by those who have the dusty in another room or out the back...

    Cheers,
    Adam

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chumley View Post
    Much obliged - might take a look at the switch and see how complicated it is. I guess this has been done before, especially by those who have the dusty in another room or out the back...

    Cheers,
    Adam
    What I did was bypass the NVR switch on my GMC booster DC completely and replace this with the PP switch located on my TS. That is not very difficult to do, but may invalidate your wartranty.

    Peter.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    For health reasons all DCs and shopvacs should be physically located outside a work area. They should be turned on when the first machine is started for the day and left on for at least 20 minutes or half an hour after the machine is used. Chances are by then another machine has been used or dust making activity (eg hand sanding) has taken place, so they need to be left on for another 20 minutes.

    My DC is outside my shed and I have rewired it so the switch is inside the shed. What I do is turn it on when I start my first machine and turn it off when I leave the shed for longer than ~1/2 hour.

    Turning a DC on only while a machine is being used may well keep a shed tidy but not healthy. DCs that are outside can also be used to remove vapors such finishing products, welding smoke, and body gas. Even if it costs 25c an hour to run, what price is a persons health?

    Most people turn their DCs off after they finish using a WW machine because they don't want the noise, but placing the DC outside also gets around this problem. If a DC cannot be physically located outside it should be put into a chamber or cupboard which vents to the outside.

    A lot of trouble? - yes - but at least it saves the need for walking backwards and forwards to the switch.

  12. #11
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    Sep 2007
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    [quote=BobL;832019]
    Turning a DC on only while a machine is being used may well keep a shed tidy but not healthy. DCs that are outside can also be used to remove vapors such finishing products, welding smoke, and body gas. Even if it costs 25c an hour to run, what price is a persons health?

    quote]

    Leaving it on all the time can also be bad for your health. Especially if you live in an urban area, and your neighbors get tired of the noise.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    For health reasons all DCs and shopvacs should be physically located outside a work area. They should be turned on when the first machine is started for the day and left on for at least 20 minutes or half an hour after the machine is used. Chances are by then another machine has been used or dust making activity (eg hand sanding) has taken place, so they need to be left on for another 20 minutes.

    My DC is outside my shed and I have rewired it so the switch is inside the shed. What I do is turn it on when I start my first machine and turn it off when I leave the shed for longer than ~1/2 hour.

    Turning a DC on only while a machine is being used may well keep a shed tidy but not healthy. DCs that are outside can also be used to remove vapors such finishing products, welding smoke, and body gas. Even if it costs 25c an hour to run, what price is a persons health?

    Most people turn their DCs off after they finish using a WW machine because they don't want the noise, but placing the DC outside also gets around this problem. If a DC cannot be physically located outside it should be put into a chamber or cupboard which vents to the outside.

    A lot of trouble? - yes - but at least it saves the need for walking backwards and forwards to the switch.
    Bob, I want to get around to making a vented cupboard for mine because it isn't possible to put it outside and be a good neighbour, but the filters I have on mine got me thinking. I have these (number3):
    http://gregorymachinery.com.au/new_m...tedfilters.htm
    and they a supposed to filter all at 3 micron and up to 98% of 1 micron particles. When I started designing a cabinet for it to go in, it turned out to be quite a complex construction to allow access for emptying so I thought maybe an air filter scrubber would be an alternative. But when I looked at the specs for these, their filters did not have any better specs than the filters on my dusty. I assumed this meant that although one might be quieter, it wouldn't be any more efficient than my dusty. So now I just leave it on running for 20 minutes or so at the end of a session. ATM I have 2 spare inlets and I wonder should I mount one up on the ceiling with some kind of chute that makes the air collection more efficient than just a hose end?
    And pardon to Chumley for hijacking the thread
    Cheers
    Michael
    Last edited by mic-d; 29th October 2008 at 01:05 PM. Reason: pardon Chumley

  14. #13
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    The yanks in the colder parts of the country often have theirs venting inside because the last thing you want there is to have your expensive centrally-heated air pumped outside with the dust. The ones I have seen have one or two cylindrical filters similar to truck air filters on the outlet. The concept is no different to those air filter units that hang from the ceiling. All they do is circulate the air within the room.

    However, in Australia (or the more hospitable bits of it) I don't think it's an issue to vent outside, as long as it's not venting into your neighbour's backyard. Mine is going outside as soon as I get around to building it a home.

    However, I will still have a remote switch on it and only run it when necessary. I usually work with the doors open, so I can't see it sucking much dust out of the air if I leave it running, except the bit in the immediate vicinity of the inlet and my electricity bill is high enough without running a 3hp motor continuously for hours on end.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  15. #14
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    Michael, go for it - I'm almost done.

    Peter, I need it for more than just the TS but I will probably do as you did and rewire the switch so I can run it off the powerboard - not too worried about the warranty, after all I can always put the soft switch back on

    BobL, I understand your point, and I've read all your posts on extractors and filters. I was originally going to put the dusty behind the garage in a small area under the house. I changed my mind partially because I was a little concerned that if I did have a fire start it would get to the whole house before I could deal with it and mainly because when I put a large hole and grill in the door between the garage and the rear area I discovered the airflow direction was from the back area into the garage and out the main door. This airflow is quite strong so I've put the dusty at the centre-front of the garage. The theory is that any smaller particles would be carried outside away from the garage and me -- I can put a fan on in the back if the air movement is not enough, but I've found that even on a still day there is quite a flow. Also, like most people I don't like more noise than I need, so it will be going off after I use the machines -- if there is some residual dust around, so be it. I'm only a part-time woodworker anyway and only use the machinery for a small portion of that time, and if there is some danger, it can join the queue like eating too much, not exercising enough, and using a mobile phone.

    Cheers,
    Adam

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mic-d View Post
    Bob, I want to get around to making a vented cupboard for mine because it isn't possible to put it outside and be a good neighbour, but the filters I have on mine got me thinking. I have these (number3):
    http://gregorymachinery.com.au/new_m...tedfilters.htm
    and they a supposed to filter all at 3 micron and up to 98% of 1 micron particles. When I started designing a cabinet for it to go in, it turned out to be quite a complex construction to allow access for emptying so I thought maybe an air filter scrubber would be an alternative. But when I looked at the specs for these, their filters did not have any better specs than the filters on my dusty. I assumed this meant that although one might be quieter, it wouldn't be any more efficient than my dusty. So now I just leave it on running for 20 minutes or so at the end of a session. ATM I have 2 spare inlets and I wonder should I mount one up on the ceiling with some kind of chute that makes the air collection more efficient than just a hose end?
    And pardon to Chumley for hijacking the thread
    Cheers
    Michael
    Yeah opening up all intakes is definitely the way to go. When I'm making a lot of dust and want to vent my shed I open up all 5 air intakes - the more air you can get out of the shed the more fine dust you can get out.

    Filters will rarely make much of difference to noise levels. Trying to filter the finest stuff let thru a DC is very hard work. To make a serious difference in small particle content of the air, any filter has to be able to filter 99.5% (preferably 99.995%) of all particles of 0.3 microns or larger. This level of filtering is expensive and involves large HEPA filters. The easiest solution is therefore to vent a DC or cyclone outside.

    I live on a small inner city block with neighbors less than 1 m either side. My DC is in a polycarbonate clab cupboard and then shrouded by a bouganvillia. There is some noise but it's about the same as the neighbor's pool pump. If you are worried about noise consider making a cupboard out of a denser material.

    If you are still worried about noise you can still keep your DC inside your shed - but put it in an enclosure with an air escape pathway to the outside. The majority of the dust that is vented is invisible and will be quickly diluted into the atmosphere - peeing in the ocean. Normal atmosphere already has heaps of small particles in it but we can handle most of these naturally - with fine WW stuff its either filter or dilute.

    Silent, with a 3HP DC you only need to run it for about 1/3 as long (actually it's even less) as a 1 HP DC so it should not cost you any more. Put a timer on your power point if you like.

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