Thread: Hare and Forbes HAFCO PD-22 Review

Originally Posted by Ashes

There are multiple manufacturers of the "same" gear in China. Each manufactures to a customers price point with quality and materials the differentiator.

The same manufacturer will make the same "model" to different standards. Whilst the machines look the same with perhaps a different paint scheme, they are not necessarily the same internally. This will explain why retailer A can be cheaper than B on what looks like the same item.

The advantage with the name brands is that extra money always goes into the quality of the parts and quality of manufacture. They cost more because they are better and are often better supported after sales.

Yes, thats exactly how the bloke at Carba-tec explained it to me. A bit like Subway, start with a basic and add extras as needed.

Col.

Thanks for this review Col, I have found it particularly helpful as I'm about to make some big purchases and was tossing up whether to go Carbatec or H&F.
H&F seems to be a bit cheaper but they don't seem to have the good reputation of Carbatec.

I disagree with the spirit of Sturdee's response, I think that even though they did do well to refund you without hassle, I feel they do deserve your sentiments.

While it's true that buying off a photo and description in a catalogue alone is not the best way to go about making a purchase I have never seen any retailer stop me or anyone else from doing so and if I went into Carbatec or H&F or anyone similar and said "hi I'm going to buy a new table saw and I've brought along my piece of 3" blackbutt to rip through on all of your machines so I can make a truly informed choice" I'm not sure that they will too hapiliy oblige.

Also while it is impractical for a retailer to check every parcel they receive, it's not unfair to "swipe" them when they get the following wrong:

1. wrong description on cataloge
2. 3 different current advertised prices for the same item
3. no help or solution offered over the phone
4. display model is different from catalogue and item delivered which was different again (if catalogue, actual and display are all different I'll be stuffed as to how Col could have better informed himself before buying)
5. inferior quality item that doesn't perform as advertised

In fact other than the way they undid the sale I can't actually see where they went right, and if this level of retailer performance doesn't deserve a "swiping" I'd hate to see what does.

Thanks. I was a bit hot under the collar when I wrote all of that. After having and using the Jet drill for a couple of weeks now, I am glad it worked out the way it did. I am very happy with it.

Col

Originally Posted by Sturdee

and



So you bought a machine based on a catalogue description and when it turned out to be wrong they cheerfully refunded your money without any question or dramas.

Peter.

The law, specifically the Trade Practices Act requires the refund, if that's what the customer wishes. It is the very least the could do. Where a product is sold by description, it must meet that description. Goods sold for a purpose must be fit for the purpose, and one would expect a drill to be able to drill holes, and at the price paid I would expect them to do rather a fine job of drilling holes.

Originally Posted by Johncs

The law, specifically the Trade Practices Act requires the refund, if that's what the customer wishes. It is the very least the could do. Where a product is sold by description, it must meet that description. Goods sold for a purpose must be fit for the purpose, and one would expect a drill to be able to drill holes, and at the price paid I would expect them to do rather a fine job of drilling holes.

Wasn't my statement clear enough that you needed to clarify it. As I said they gave the refund immediately without any question or drama .


Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Wasn't my statement clear enough that you needed to clarify it. As I said they gave the refund immediately without any question or drama .


Peter.

It is also true they could have done more, they had an obviously unhappy customer and apparently declined an opportunity to ameliorate the damage done.

I'm sure Col was somewhere between stress: and but hopefully less than , but there are ways of handling difficult customers. I have a book I cannot find atm by Kris Cole, but here's one of her promotions: http://www.bax.com.au/workshops/ccc.html

Basically, the process begins:
Listen to the customer's feedback. Do not debate the facts. Empathise to the extent you can. Ask, "What would you like us to do?"

Maybe, Col would have said, "Could I pay a little more and have the next model?" Imagine, if the response was, "Certainly! Shall we go over with it with you before you take it away?"

What then might Col's report have been?

Note that nothing above requires them to do anything unreasonable.

As I said, they did the least the law requires of them, and Col's feeling aggrieved has done them no good at all.

Coincidentally, I was out for a walk today (along with a train ride), and when far from home discovered this place:
http://www.fioramachinery.com.au/
Now I'd not say their website is very enticing, but they are the WA representatives of Harris & Forbes, and I've started eyeing off tablesaws, so I went in.

It is surely a fine toy shop: an item bearing a label "mini drill" also bore a price tag well over $4000.

I asked about the http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=W446 ts-250, the cheapest new tablesaw I know about, and was told "its good value, but it needs some tuning and some strengthening. If you want a saw that's ready to use, better buy one of the others."

Apparently they sold one, and the customer was about as happy as Col so they took it back. They are not keen to sell another.
And no, they don't open the packages and inspect the contents any more than Bunnings does.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Wasn't my statement clear enough that you needed to clarify it. As I said they gave the refund immediately without any question or drama .

and

Originally Posted by Johncs

As I said, they did the least the law requires of them,

So it was clear enough and your post about what the law required was totally extraneous, for they had already complied with it at the first opportunity that they had. Thank you. So my post was clear enough.

Further they did not do the least the law requires of them, they did all that the law required of them.

Originally Posted by Johncs

As I said, they did the least the law requires of them, and Col's feeling aggrieved has done them no good at all.

I was researching drill presses, and came across this thread. and this video, which shows how Delta handles complaints.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZglKBX1F_4"]YouTube - How not to start your bench drill[/ame]

I'm sure the Delta owner is satisfied, though maybe not happy. Delta fixed the problem, and gave him a small gift.

i work in a heavy engineering shop in western sydney which is home to about 15 cnc machines. 6 of them being japanese, another 3 being czech, 2 russians, a german and then 2 taiwanese ones bought from hare and forbes....

these 2 machines are supposed to be production machines but they have more down time than any other machine in the place. one came with a multi-axis attachment that for the 3 years its been there has never worked.... and when are nd forbes installed the machine they never tred to fix the problem.

its not just their 400 dollar woodworking machines its also their 600,000 dollar metalworking machines....

since then the owner has never tried to look for the best price he now looks for the best quality. we have a new machin being installed that cost approx 2.2 million dollars.

just thought i would add in there....

Don't believe the label either just because it says it's made in Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it is. I was at a customer's plant in Suzhou a few months ago and they had a neighbouring business that was doing a great trade buying Chinese made machinery, removing the "made in China label" and affixing a "Made in Taiwan" label before selling it to unsuspecting exporters. When buying anything made in this part of the world, "buyer beware" has a new meaning.

I live in Shanghai and have seen Carbatec tools on sale here in China (I assume they were production over runs or maybe quality seconds). They even had the Carbatec phone numbers on them!

Living here you quickly learn to check everything before you hand over the money.

what brand cnc from hare and forbes?

if somebody paid 600k for a machine and they just let it be not working then ? if i paid 600k for anything i would make really sure it worked and kept on working