Thread: Hare and Forbes HAFCO PD-22 Review

Thanks Col, I've just started looking for a new drill press since mine has both shaft runout and the table is not perpendicular along a nonadjustable axis. Now I know to be careful of the H/F drill presses. Mines a Tradetools model.

Cheers
Michael

I also have a H&F drillpress, I am not sure if it is the same model as yours, I have been happy with it.

It did need some tuning to get it to run as good as it does now. I have also changed the chuck with a keyless one which also appears to have less runout. The table on mine is rock solid, does not move. I have used mine for drilling, morticing and even sanding with the wasp sander.

Certainly a good drill press for woodworking but I am not sure whether it would cut it for metalworking. BTW &F in my experience have been very helpful to deal with, try them and see how you go.

regards

M

Originally Posted by Col

Hi all, Col from Hoppers here.

I just thought that I would post my thoughts on the Hafco PD-22.



I have been looking at getting a pedestal drill to replace my old Ryobi bench job that is over 20 years old. Sussed out a few at the various tool establishments and decided to go for the Hare and Forbes model. All I had looked at are either Chinese or Taiwanese these days and I had $550 to spend. Saw the PD-22 in the catalogue and decided it looked ok. Catalogue $519 Paid $499.

Drove 1.5 hours each way to get it. It came in a cardboard box about 90 kg. I stupidly did not open the box at the delivery point. Got it home and assembled it in about one hour. Covered in the usual oily gunk.

First impressions is that the castings are very rough. The table T slots are poorly cast. No matter how tight I tighten the table it still moves up and down 3 - 5 mm. I even resorted to tightening with a ring spanner on the tightening lever and waited for the casting to break but it still wobbles. Any ideas of accurate drilling are impossible. I also wanted to use it for mortising but it would be useless for that. Unless I had gallons of putty. The floor casting is thin and once bolted to the floor it still wobbles when pushed. Not solid or heavy duty as claimed. The safety switch under the lid for the pulley adjustment did not even come close to making contact so the machine would not go until I bent the contact with the multigrips. The picture in the catalogue has three chrome rods for the handle but mine came with a heavy black cast iron handle. Ugly as sin.

If you think that I am not too happy then you would be right. I took the punt on a Chinese machine and it serves me right. I got what I paid for though I thought $499 would get me a reasonable tool. I will be on the phone in the morning to discuss the return of the machine for a refund or to have the bodgey bits replaced with suitable parts. I don't like my chances but we will see.

I will post the follow up tomorrow night.

Col.

I got up early this morning, went out to the shed, pulled the drill apart and bagged it all up and stuck it back in its box. I phoned Hare and Forbes but there was no one able to speak to me so I shoved the drill in the trailer and took it back. I explained the story and the sales manager refunded all of my money. The shop display and the catalogue picture are different to what I got in my box. he said they just check the first one in an order and assume they are all the same and ok. (not a good way to do it) I tried to get a deal on the next model up but he wouldn't be in it.

Went to Carba-tec and looked at their drills. Much better quality and castings are finished better. Would not budge on price and told me that show specials were coming up.

Went to Woodwork machinery Warehouse in Citrus Ave Braeside.



Saw a JET 17 for $630 approx can't remember the exact figure. Told the the Hare and Forbes story and came home with the JET for $575. Top quality straight out of the box. Not oily and gungy and dirty. Castings all good and solid as a rock. Put it all together and it comes with a 1 - 16 keyless chuck and a drill vice with T-bolt fixings. Did the bent wire test to see how even the table is and it is spot on. The only thing I will be changing is to remove the screw that holds the belt cover closed and I will fit a knob for ease of entry.

I recently bought a 19 inch bandsaw from Carba-tec. Hare and Forbes have bandsaws that look exactly the same until you carefully look at the castings. Chalk and cheese. Taiwan makes better stuff than China it seems.

You get what you pay for and it does pay to shop around and don't be scared to ask for a better price.......

Col

Sorry to hear about your experience Col. We bought one about 4 years ago for the metalwork business where I used to work, it sounds like the display one you described.
It always had a motor vibration present, whether running under load or not, and the table and table mount would flex under load due to light table castings and poor facing of the bracketry for the table support arm. Also had poor belt life due to misalignment of the pulleys between the layshaft set and spindle set, and problems with the keyed chuck not gripping bits. The light (40W bayonet tungten), buried deep in the head casting had a fairly short life due to poor air circirculation and vibration and very little useful light landed in the actual work area, it was mostly concentrated on the table about 100mm behind the bit, creating a glare spot.

All in, I think the Jet would have to be the better option.

Gday col.

Give this guy a call.. I think his name is Frank (but my memory may be failing me)

Northern Machinery Co Pty Ltd

95- 99 Plenty Rd, Preston, VIC 3072
p: (03) 9484 6726 f: (03) 9484 3013


He deals in second hand machinery and I've had luck buying from him before.

I dropped a heap of cash on carbatec a while back and every machine went back within six months.

I've also managed to save a bit buying old 3phase gear and buying new single phase motors.

Best of luck.. and good on you for putting the drill straight back in your trailer.

Originally Posted by Col

the PD-22 in the catalogue and decided it looked ok. Catalogue $519 Paid $499.

and

Originally Posted by Col

I explained the story and the sales manager refunded all of my money.

So you bought a machine based on a catalogue description and when it turned out to be wrong they cheerfully refunded your money without any question or dramas. They must be really lousy to do that and so to continue to deserve your swipe. Personally I think that is good service and that ought to have been acknowledged.

Originally Posted by Col

he said they just check the first one in an order and assume they are all the same and ok. (not a good way to do it)

So you expect a business to unpack each machine, open it upto see if it is all correct. Don't know any retailer that does that.

Originally Posted by Col

I tried to get a deal on the next model up but he wouldn't be in it.

May be that is the real reason for the continued swipe at H & F.


Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

and



So you bought a machine based on a catalogue description and when it turned out to be wrong they cheerfully refunded your money without any question or dramas. They must be really lousy to do that and so to continue to deserve your swipe. Personally I think that is good service and that ought to have been acknowledged.




So you expect a business to unpack each machine, open it upto see if it is all correct. Don't know any retailer that does that.



May be that is the real reason for the continued swipe at H & F.


Peter.

I swiped at them (your words) because they sell crap machines (drill presses)advertised as heavy duty which they are not. They advertise with a photo and sell customers something different. They advertise on the floor for 529, catalogue for 519 and Trading post for 499. I never asked them for any discount innitially. I did ask WMW for a discount and got it. I asked Carba-tec for a discount and did not get it. If you don't ask you dont get it. Because of their (H&F) tardiness I am out of pocket many dollars but I suppose that is ok. The manager was appologetic for the situation and realised H&F had made an error that is why a refund in full was given. If it had been a figment of my immagination then a refund would not have been forthcoming and rightly so.

Carba-tec and WMW sell superior quality machines. Get over it. Go and have a close look for yourself instead of trying to have a cheap shot at me for informing others of my last few days experience..

Hare and Forbes no more..............

Col

Originally Posted by Slow6

Gday col.

Give this guy a call.. I think his name is Frank (but my memory may be failing me)

Northern Machinery Co Pty Ltd

95- 99 Plenty Rd, Preston, VIC 3072
p: (03) 9484 6726 f: (03) 9484 3013


He deals in second hand machinery and I've had luck buying from him before.

I dropped a heap of cash on carbatec a while back and every machine went back within six months.

I've also managed to save a bit buying old 3phase gear and buying new single phase motors.

Best of luck.. and good on you for putting the drill straight back in your trailer.

I have dealt with them many times and sold a Woodfast saw to them many years ago.

Col

My impression was that you were evaluating the quality of the machines, Col, and not dumping on H&Fs. This has been a good thread and I thank you for describing so well the process of "getting it right". The bottom line is that companies sourcing stuff from China or Taiwan need to be aware of the quality, or lack thereof.

I have just had dealings with H&F, bought a 600mm bench panbrake. Because of worries about quality, I went to the showroom and checked out the demonstrator, did a few test bends and was happy with the results and the machine so ordered one to be delivered. The delivered tool was a load of rubbish, instead of the blade being flush with the bed, it is .5mm high on one side,rising to 1.5mm the other, the eccentric adjustors for the blade are so loose that the act of bending pushes them out of position and results in a rounded bend with the blade needing readjustment for the next bend. Machinery I have bought from them in the distant past was excellent, I think they need to review their quality policy!

Originally Posted by Rossluck

My impression was that you were evaluating the quality of the machines, Col, and not dumping on H&Fs. This has been a good thread and I thank you for describing so well the process of "getting it right". The bottom line is that companies sourcing stuff from China or Taiwan need to be aware of the quality, or lack thereof.

Thanks. I know I had a bit of a rant in anger but such is life.

There used to be a sign hanging in Pontings hardware in Warnambool that went along the lines of...

"The joy of a bargain price is soon forgotten but the pain of a poor quality tool lasts forever"

Col

Originally Posted by burraboy

I have just had dealings with H&F, bought a 600mm bench panbrake. Because of worries about quality, I went to the showroom and checked out the demonstrator, did a few test bends and was happy with the results and the machine so ordered one to be delivered. The delivered tool was a load of rubbish, instead of the blade being flush with the bed, it is .5mm high on one side,rising to 1.5mm the other, the eccentric adjustors for the blade are so loose that the act of bending pushes them out of position and results in a rounded bend with the blade needing readjustment for the next bend. Machinery I have bought from them in the distant past was excellent, I think they need to review their quality policy!

All they are achieving by doing this is getting people angry, who in turn pass the bad experience to others and lose sales. They probably have plenty of good stuff and plenty of satisfied customers but let themselves down with your issue and mine. I am sure there are similar stories with all of the machinery sellers but I can only comment on my experiences. Unfortunately some people take umbrage to that.

Col..

Col.

Originally Posted by Col

Carba-tec and WMW sell superior quality machines. Get over it. Go and have a close look for yourself

Been there, done that many years ago and don't need any more machines and the machines I have bought from H & F ( a jointer, bandsaw and disk sander) were of better or same quality at a lesser price.


Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Been there, done that many years ago and don't need any more machines and the machines I have bought from H & F ( a jointer, bandsaw and disk sander) were of better or same quality at a lesser price.


Peter.

Maybe they are cutting a few corners nowdays in order to compete. The woodwork area seems to me to be a bit of a sideline to the metalworking machinery in the showroom and they are not going to be represented at the upcoming Woodwork show at the showgrounds. I originally looked at H&F due to the recommendation of a work friend as he was happy with his dust extractor and thicknesser. The thing is that he is doing decking and pergola carpentry and I am a joiner and work to fag paper tolerances. (try to anyway) What works for him may not be suitable for me. I have been involved in the trade from the early 70s. Ships carpenter/joiner by trade. Served my time on the bench and learned all traditional wood machines and hand tool skills. No portable power tools allowed not even sanders. Everything scraped and hand sanded. Eventually became a secondary trade teacher in woodwork and metalwork. Did a bit of TAFE then worked for the HIA looking after the victorian carpentry apprentices. Became totally discouraged with the direction the trade was going and burned out. Now I work in the publishing area of the Herald and Weekly times and do woodwork as a sideline just to keep my hand in and as a hobby. So to cut a long story short, I have purchased many, many items of woodworking machinery over the years both for personal use and for schools and industry and I have a fair idea of what is good or no so good. It is much easier when money isn't an object and you are spending some governments department funds on tools and equipment.

Anyway, sorry to prattle on.

Col.