Thread: which paneling method? tongue and groove or domino

I personally use the5mm dominoes for gluing up jointed boards. I use them for alignment only, properly jointed boards should have enough strength butt joined together.
Another couple of other options is to use your table saw and cut grooves into the edge of both boards and then machine a loose tongue to fit neat into slot, this may not always be suitable as you would see the tongue at end of the boards. You could also use a slot cutter in a router to make the slot. This would give you more control over where you start and stop the slot.

Albert,
My response would be to use the Domino and, if the cost of the dominos is your only show stopper, then make your own.
Any decent length of hard wood will do, but if you're fussy then use a lump of beech (that's what the originals are made from I believe).

Get your table saw and rip strips to the required maximum width and thickness, then use a small radius round-over bit in your router to, strangely enough, round over the sides of the strips then cut them to length.

If you're really fussy, you should score a couple of grooves either side of the strip before you cut them.

Ian

How many domino biscuits are we talking about here?

Speaking of Domino, how come the XL cannot not do 5mm? I wonder why Selling 2 machines is better then selling 1 I guess.

Just checked. 780 domino (8mm X 40) for AUD$137. That is 17.5c each. It is not that bad is it?

Dominos are a bit extreme, but obviously convenient seeing you have the machine. I have excessive experience with them via work but still think my old school Stanley dowelling jig runs rings around them.

When gluing up panels, I just make sure I use a glue with ample work time. Once in clamps, releasing pressure as required to persuade into alignment with a rubber mallet works fine (then re-tighten). A straight edge clamped across the boards stops bowing/cupping at the join.

Long grain laminations rarely require addition mechanical assistance from the likes of dominos if prepared properly, the correct glue used and then correct amount of clamping pressure applied at assembly. Sometimes clamps are not even required in certain situations. It's more about expelling air and excess glue from the join. Rubbing the boards together after applying glue can achieve this if the surfaces are clean, square and true.

Ian's suggestion of making your own dominos is ideal if you choose to go down that path. Don't discount the groove he suggests during machining. I do this to all my dowels I make. It creates an avenue for the excess glue to escape and prevents air-lock behind the dowel/domino which means less clamping pressure is required to bring the join together. I have also planed the edges/sides of the dominos to facilitate this.

Craig.

My understanding is that you have the XL700 domino, which utilizes 8, 10, 12, 14 mm dominos.
Whereas the DF500 utilizes 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 mm dominoes, which you don't have.

There is an adapter you can purchase to use the DF500 cutters in your XL700.
Hope this was helpful and I have purchased off these guys before, great service.

Cheers

I have the baby domino and I want to upgrade to the XL with losing the ability to cut 5mm and 6mm. So that is what I need but for USD $70 a pop. Damn.....

Thanks

Originally Posted by CMB

Dominos are a bit extreme, but obviously convenient seeing you have the machine. I have excessive experience with them via work but still think my old school Stanley dowelling jig runs rings around them.

When gluing up panels, I just make sure I use a glue with ample work time. Once in clamps, releasing pressure as required to persuade into alignment with a rubber mallet works fine (then re-tighten). A straight edge clamped across the boards stops bowing/cupping at the join.

Long grain laminations rarely require addition mechanical assistance from the likes of dominos if prepared properly, the correct glue used and then correct amount of clamping pressure applied at assembly. Sometimes clamps are not even required in certain situations. It's more about expelling air and excess glue from the join. Rubbing the boards together after applying glue can achieve this if the surfaces are clean, square and true.

Ian's suggestion of making your own dominos is ideal if you choose to go down that path. Don't discount the groove he suggests during machining. I do this to all my dowels I make. It creates an avenue for the excess glue to escape and prevents air-lock behind the dowel/domino which means less clamping pressure is required to bring the join together. I have also planed the edges/sides of the dominos to facilitate this.

Craig.

Thanks Craig,

seems there is more in the paneling than just simply applying them with glue and clamp them up!

I dont think I will ever make my domino, the standard 4-5mm domino are cheap enough.

Originally Posted by wolften

My understanding is that you have the XL700 domino, which utilizes 8, 10, 12, 14 mm dominos.
Whereas the DF500 utilizes 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 mm dominoes, which you don't have.

There is an adapter you can purchase to use the DF500 cutters in your XL700.
Hope this was helpful and I have purchased off these guys before, great service.

Cheers

Thanks Wolften! you have just saved me $$$$ with this adaptor... I was seriously considering buying the DF500 because the cost of the 4-5mm domino, I did the calcs last night, the break even point is about $2750NZD, that is, by the time I have spent $2750 on the 8x40 dominos (about 12,500 of them), I would have been better off to buy the DF500 and the 5x30, which gives me equivalent amount of domino.

Originally Posted by Wongo

I have the baby domino and I want to upgrade to the XL with losing the ability to cut 5mm and 6mm. So that is what I need but for USD $70 a pop. Damn.....

Thanks

you can sell the baby Domino... you dont need two machines...

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Albert,
My response would be to use the Domino and, if the cost of the dominos is your only show stopper, then make your own.
Any decent length of hard wood will do, but if you're fussy then use a lump of beech (that's what the originals are made from I believe).

Get your table saw and rip strips to the required maximum width and thickness, then use a small radius round-over bit in your router to, strangely enough, round over the sides of the strips then cut them to length.

If you're really fussy, you should score a couple of grooves either side of the strip before you cut them.

Ian

Hi Ian. I probably will never make my own domino, as the smaller size are so much cheaper its probably not worth the time making my own...

Originally Posted by Wongo

How many domino biscuits are we talking about here?

Speaking of Domino, how come the XL cannot not do 5mm? I wonder why Selling 2 machines is better then selling 1 I guess.

I will be using the Domino for panel making in production run, I have been making panels with just glue and clamps and the result are not good.

My impression is that Festool introduced DF500 first, the market had doubt about the size of the domino not being big enough for bigger furniture, so they brought out the XL.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Wongo

Just checked. 780 domino (8mm X 40) for AUD$137. That is 17.5c each. It is not that bad is it?

my local(Auckland) Carbatec sells them at:
780 of the 8x40 cost NZD$172.5, thats 22cents each.
1800 of the 5x30 cost NZD$172.5, Thats 9.6 cents each
or the
450 of the 4x20 cost NZD$34.5, thats 7.7cents each...

will be using them in production term, so the cost is important

Albert, first you said..

Originally Posted by Albert

.
Downside of the domino is the ongoing cost of the domino, otherwise not much "down side" that I can think of...

Both Wongo and I took that to mean you thought that dominoes i.e. the little woody whatits that look like, well, dominoes, were too expensive


But then you said:

Originally Posted by Albert

Hi Ian. I probably will never make my own domino, as the smaller size are so much cheaper its probably not worth the time making my own...

I, for one, am confused

Ian

You are in business so you want it done fast and accurate. Time is money and you will save a lot of time. 1800 (5mm) or 780 (8mm) can make you hellalot of panels. Divide it down to $ per panel it can’t be that bad. I think you should stop worrying.

you can sell the baby Domino... you dont need two machines...

They want you to have 2 machines. Take this Festool, you suck.

Thanks to wolften's link. I might sell my domino, get an adapter and buy the XL.

While I am at it I might say it again.

Listen Festool You suck!!!

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Albert, first you said..



Both Wongo and I took that to mean you thought that dominoes i.e. the little woody whatits that look like, well, dominoes, were too expensive


But then you said:




I, for one, am confused

Ian

hi Ian, I meant to say for the bigger Domino(size greater than 8x40mm), they are too expensive to be used for panel joining.

the smaller domino is cheap enough that I can accept for panel joining, therefore I have not considered to make the smaller domino myself. Say I pay myself $30 an hour, the amount of domino I can buy with $30 will be much more than the number of domino I can physically make in an hour (say 5mm)

hope this helps

Hi Albert,
whilst you have got most things sorted just thought I would comment on the use of the spindle moulder. I use one and earlier this year I purchased a new 1Hp Italian power feed unit from A1 woodwork Machinery in Sydney for less than $900. I buy my cutters with limiters from Carbatec and for 40mm I recall they are less than $50. Making brackets and fitting the power feed was a little tricky but the end result was fine. There is no way I would ever return to hand feed on my MiniMax CU300 both for safety as well as for the better finish power feed can give. I do a lot of large board joining and often use a CMT cutter set in the spindle moulder to cut a 6mm slot along each edge then use strips of 6mm ply as a joiner. Of course I also use a biscuit cutter where necessary but I do find The spindle set up yields a flatter join especially in longer boards.
Cheers,
Paintman