Thread: 15amp plug on welder

Actually if the 15A unit is under warranty then don't file the earth pin down, it voids your warranty.

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Geoff, check out https://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/15amp-plugs-114547/ which I started a while ago when faced with the same situation. I went for the modified extension cord option, but I'm also careful doing this - making sure nothing else is operating on that circuit, not running full amps on the welder and not for sustained periods. I have this niggling feeling that it also has the potential to affect your welder but I'm not sure how. Generally speaking most people will wisely say they don't recommend it, but know plenty of people who still get away with using a 10amp plug. Cheers - Mick

Mick I do this as well.... the effect on the welder (or whatever) is voltage drop caused by 'pulling' such a current (15a) through wires that were only designed to carry 10a. Then distance comes into because (usually) it is the furthest power point from the main board.

Like you say though, take it easy and allow time between runs and all will be OK. It is when you weld continuously that the heat build up will occour and this usually blows a fuse (very old house!) or trips a breaker.

Originally Posted by garfield

I really appreciate all the replies and advice guys, but I decided to take the unit back and replaced it with a smaller 130A inverter welder that has a 10A plug.

Thanks everyone though for your time.

Cheers
Geoff

That is a shame because even if you have the 140A unit, the chances that you run it at full capacity is the only time when you would pull the maximum amps. Therefore you must ask yourself how often would you do that.

So if you ran it at 75% the the input amperage would also be less. Also with the 140A unit the internals would be better than the 130A job.

As with everything in life, moderation is the key.

Originally Posted by RustyArc

I just mentioned this to the sparky who was re-doing our switchboard (upgrade to 3 phase) he just said "file the earth pin down", making the same point as others that a 10A and 15A circuit have the same cable, and often the same 16A breaker size, just different numbers of outlets.

Why not just put a 10amp plug on the end of the 15amp lead? No filing required.

I just think that the risk and the safety concern wasn't worth the hassle so I replaced the unit with a unit that has a 10amp plug instead... Just plugged her in and used it without the worry of tripping the house or blowing out power points etc.

one of my fronius 150 amp inverters has a filed down pin that was done in 2001,i have used that part machine in HUNDREDS (no exageration) of homes at 80 to 100 amps useing 2.6 mm rods on my spiral stairs.Also when doing structural conections on site i have pushed it to 140 amps non stop with 3.2mm to the extent of half a box non stop on 20 amp circuit breakers in builders boxes.There is no more melted lead plugs or power points like when pushing transformer machines and it is done on at least one 20 metre ext lead.In that time i have asked dozens of sparkies if they,in their exsperianced opinion,had a problem with a filed pin and never once did anyone say it absolutely shouldnt be done.For your information only,regards danny

To highlight the same point yet again I would like to stress that should you return a welder to the agent claiming a warranty repair, what can happen.

Should your welder sport a filed down 15 amp plug or a plug that has been filed down your warranty will be immediately declared void irrespective of what is wrong with the machine.

If you present the agent / manufacturer with a golden opportunity not to honour the said warranty because of your tampering with the plug, do not be surprised when they take it.
The warranty statements are usually very specific about this sort of thing.

It matters not if your inverter works on the end of an 80 metre lead, if you give the agent/manufacturer a free get out a jail card ( in regards to warranty) they will use it.
However using 300mm of cable with a female 15 amp female plug and a 10 amp male plug on opposite ends is difficult to determine if you have been using the same.

The better half works at an electrical repairer and her boss tells me every machine warranty that comes back through the door with a tampered 15 amp plug-replaced or filed - is automatically voided.

They are those who threaten to take the agent to the small claims court. A report is then filled for the Qld.Electrical Workers Board who then can take the offender to court. It varies in other states I know.

Grahame

Something else to ponder.

Your standard 2400W fan heater dtaws 10A. People will, generally, happily plug 2 of thse in at home and they are quite possibly on the same circuit. Does the fuse always blow?

No big deal in plugging in a single 15A welder is it?

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

A report is then filled for the Qld.Electrical Workers Board who then can take the offender to court. It varies in other states I know.

Grahame

So they are dobbing in their customers in order to avoid their warranty responsibilities? I'd be very interested to know which manufacturers engage in such behaviour, just so I can be sure to never purchase any of their products and ensure no other person or business I work with makes the same mistake.

I wonder why the standards people (and the hundreds of contributors/reveiwers) bother with having a 10 and 15 amp plug/socket/GPO config. They are obviously not as well informed as some of our members here.

15 Amp circuits are designed to have 15 amp appliances plugged into them, just as 10 amp circuits are designed to have 10 amp appliences plugged into them. As you are filing down the pin, do you not get a nagging sense that what you are doing is potentially unsafe (as well as being totaly illegal)?

Now the chances are that you will never have a problem, but you'd better watch out if you ever do, especially those conducting a business with equiptment that contains illegal modifications.

Be safe people ...

Just a comment re 15A sockets, when my workshop was wired for 3 phase I asked the lecky to put in a 15A socket near the door. Which he did and it is a double 15A socket, so i guess I can run 2 15A devices at once. And this was all OKed by the electrical inspector (my workshop rewire was 'randomly' chosen for inspection, as the lecky I used had only recently got his contractors ticket).

I also have a short 100mm extension lead 15A female, 10A male which I use on my 170A inverter welder. However I am very aware of the amps I use this machine with and how long the wiring is back to the switchboard.

cheers
Frank

Originally Posted by RustyArc

So they are dobbing in their customers in order to avoid their warranty responsibilities? I'd be very interested to know which manufacturers engage in such behaviour, just so I can be sure to never purchase any of their products and ensure no other person or business I work with makes the same mistake.

Rusty
Read the text in its entirety.Warranty statements protect both sides .

The short version is:
Customer illegally alters plug->machine has warranty problem and customer presents it to agent->agent cannot accept warranty claim as machine is altered OUTSIDE TERMS OF WARRANTY->customer makes a big scene in shop and threatens small claims tribunal-> agent wishes customer to have a nice day and says he see him in court - >

I was there and saw that one.

The same agent I have witnessed help out someone with a part unobtainable normal company spares has searched through his own scrap pile and got the customer up and running- Its all in the way you deal with people

Yes life can be tough- especially if one is stupid. Act like a plick when your obviously in the wrong and it often comes back to bite you.

Small inverter welder on a 10amp plug ,I don't see too much of a problem .This is because the unit requires a whole lot less power compared against transformer units. A certain percentage of the tranny powered inputs was lost as heat. The inverters lose very little heat therefore require less input-therefore can get away with a lesser input.
Diligence is required to see that the things aren't run on 10 amps with 100mm leads at full throttle.That's were the problems start.Common sense is not always that common.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Customer illegally alters plug->machine has warranty problem and customer presents it to agent->agent cannot accept warranty claim as machine is altered OUTSIDE TERMS OF WARRANTY->customer makes a big scene in shop and threatens small claims tribunal-> agent wishes customer to have a nice day and says he see him in court - >

Many, many moons ago I worked at a power tool shop that was also the repair agent for a bunch of brands. Some of the tools/machines that came in had been modified in some respect, and while we could have been d*ckheads about it, if it was clear their modification played no role in the failure of the unit we'd fix it like any other warranty repair. That was because we valued and respected our customers, and applied common sense and good faith.

While I can't remember a filed earth pin ever being raised as an issue, I'm sure a few would have come through, probably in the form of larger single-phase compressors and the like, used by tradies on various sites where a 15A outlet was not guaranteed.

Unfortunately common sense and good faith have absolutely nothing to do with legal liability.
When the house burns down, killing all occupants, and the investigation finds that the welder with the filed down pin drew excess current and started a fire in the roof and the welder repair shop new of this stupid modification but did nothing then the repairman and his boss are both going to lose their house and go to jail. All because they were good guys and agreed that the guy who owned the welder knew much more than the standards commission and the regulatory bodies.
Extreme and over the top, I know. But you cannot afford to neglect your duty of care when you run a business.
When somebody dies you can be assured they will look for someone to blame.