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Thread: 15amp welders on 10amp circuits
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16th November 2010, 11:24 AM #61
This is a very tired thread that goes back and forth. If you want to do it yourself then do it or get yourself a qualified licenced guy. Having said that there are even rough qualified guys out there as there are in many trades. Use some one that others have been happy with and recommend. They can charge a bit but most of them are fair. Those are your 2 choices, so pick one and stop annoying and shaking this thread up.
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16th November 2010, 11:24 AM #62A fan heater can draw 2400watts. An oil column heater can draw 1800 to 2400 watts. A hair dryer can draw 1500 watts. Any combination of these could easily be plugged into the same double GPO.
I don't see how you can cater for a worst case scenario without taking into account load aggregation. Do you just think of a number and double it? Whenever I want a point added, the first question my sparky asks me is "what are you going to plug into it?" You can't just add points without consideration of the existing load.
The suggestion being made was that every 10A outlet in a circuit could be loaded up to 10A. This is clearly not the case. Simple maths proves that. The 10A refers to the maximum rating of that outlet. It does not mean you can plug a 2400W heater into every socket on a circuit.
There are several factors that determine what you'll get away with. Some of them include how old the house is, how many other things are plugged in, what their duty cycle is. There are too many variables for someone to just make the blanket assertion that there is no increased risk as some of you seem to do.
Do you deny that house fires are frequently caused by electrical faults? What do you consider causes those faults to occur?
Your point about 15A plugs is speculation. Nuisance tripping is a symptom of a circuit running at close to it's designed capacity. If you are constantly tripping the circuit, then whatever you are running is peaking above the maximum current draw. My take on the 15A plug is to make sure ample overhead exists on the circuit so that it is operating well within it's design parameters.
Some people like to sail close to the wind, others prefer a margin for error. Hence the drawn out debate in these threads I suppose."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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16th November 2010, 06:13 PM #63Old handle
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No Joke
I reckon it's time for a laugh on this thread, Anyway, when I worked the then Telecom as a Tech, we were changing towns over to automatic from the old manual system and also fix whatever faults they reported. We got a fault in one time where it was reported by the Sub that he couldn't hear the phone ringin anymore, so out we went to see what the problem was. It was normal for the liney's to dig in a DL (direct line) instead of whatever the old stuff consisted of, anyway as we went up the drive we looked out for issues with the DL but couldn't see any. So once we got to the Sub we asked what the problem was and he said, Hey? I'm mostly deaf and now since you guys put in the new line I cant hear the phone any more! Oh we said and looked around to find all the new installation to be fine! He had a 6" bell outside that when it rang, all the neighborhood knew he had a call! (he was bell deaf) So we asked him, how did you hear the phone before? His answer floored us! Well whenever the phone rings the dog runs up and down on his long run barking and yelping, that is how I knew the bloody phone was ringin alright! We looked around and sure enough the old guy had set up the dog run on the old earth return phone line and since we had put the DL underground the dog wasn't getting the 110V of ring through the chain and himself to ground that caused him to be crying out in pain no doubt. Bloody hell! We installed a tone ringer that has a wide range so he was happy then cause he could hear the phone now and so was the dog!
And that's the truth...Oddjob1
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16th November 2010, 06:17 PM #64
Poor dog must've developed a nervous tick whenever he heard a phone ring after that! Classic
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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16th November 2010, 10:12 PM #65Retired
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17th November 2010, 12:16 AM #66
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17th November 2010, 01:31 AM #67
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17th November 2010, 06:57 AM #68
Sorry but you are just guessing here. One example does not necessarily mean that is the same for all.
This is the sticking point for me - people make assumptions (very dangerous) that ALL 10amp gpo's are capable of running 15 amps for possibly sustained periods. The argument that a double gpo is running 20 amps is also a furphy, as apart from the connection terminals, all other parts are separate (ie switch and outlet).
The bottom line is that the standard says that 15amp equipment must be connected to a proper 15amp circuit. Rather than trying to get someone to do a substandard job, wouldn't it be better to show them how to do it properly? Crappy DIY electrical work (which is what you are suggesting he do) is just ammunition to those who wish to keep all electrical work out of the DIY realm.Cheers.
Vernon.
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Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.
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17th November 2010, 08:28 AM #69
Master Splinter, you can argue and try to pick holes in my words until the cows come home, it will not change the facts. This is a question that has a correct answer and that answer is:
1. The welder has a 15A plug to prevent the user from plugging it into a 10A GPO
2. The design of a 15A circuit is different to that of a 10A circuit
3. The design is specified in the Wiring Standard
4. The Wiring Standard is enforced by various acts of legislation
Your argument that a 10A socket can be replaced with a 15A socket because there is a minimum of a 16A circuit breaker completely ignores whatever else might be hanging off that circuit. It's the kind of flawed logic that does cause people to do silly things.
It also leaves a trap for future owners and it's the kind of thing that can wind up in court.
In short: irresponsible suggestion."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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17th November 2010, 09:38 AM #70
I strongly agree with SilentC. Standards are critical and should be observed and you should not interpret your own ideas as been safe. Don't ignore many years of R&D, improvements for the safe use of electricity and cabling. Everything has its limitations and therefore dont over load an outlet that was intended to deliver a certain power supply. If people want to run their own race thats fine but dont argue with them when good and correct advise is given. When you have a sparky do some work for you make sure you tell them what you intend to do so the the correct size wiring and other components are fitted to accommodate the intended use. They will do the right job with the purpose you have in mind and therefor dont understate the use to save a few dollars and then complain to them after you have melted it back and caused a fire.
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17th November 2010, 10:01 AM #71
This seems to be going on ad-nauseum, so in the spirit of only a few of us sick-os are still following it.
Master splinter
What's your take on 7.5 amp extension leads with 10 amp plugs sold in K Mart etc.?
silentC
You are pulling your punches, I said criminally irrisposable and that is what it is.
The poor zapped doggy.
There is a Telstra looping bolard near my place that has sent both my dogs reeling at different times when they have sniffed it.
Animals are more sensitive to electricity than us. I have heard of a horse electrocuted by the difference in potential (voltage) of where he put his front and back feet due to a near by earth fault.
May be he should have had safety boots instead of iron shoes.Hugh
Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.
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17th November 2010, 10:05 AM #72
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17th November 2010, 10:14 AM #73
Jeez you guys, this one has only gone on for 5 pages!!
The poor original poster has headed for the hills with his head in his hands long ago!
Crappy DIY electrical work (which is what you are suggesting he do) is just ammunition to those who wish to keep all electrical work out of the DIY realm."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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17th November 2010, 03:21 PM #74SENIOR MEMBER
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17th November 2010, 03:26 PM #75
You must have a different "posts per page" setting to me, Geoff. I can only handle it in small doses
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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