Thread: 15amp welders on 10amp circuits

Originally Posted by Vernonv

This is the sticking point for me - people make assumptions (very dangerous) that ALL 10amp gpo's are capable of running 15 amps for possibly sustained periods.

Thank you. This is what I am trying to discourage.

I am arguing against the idea that it is safer to modify the plug on the welder or create a 10 to 15 amp 'patch cord'.

My point is that it is safer to connect at a (installed against regulation but still completely within circuit tolerances and design criteria) power point than via a (installed against regulation and providing potential to overload an interposed extension cord or power board) modified 15 amp plug.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

I am arguing against the idea that it is safer to modify the plug on the welder or create a 10 to 15 amp 'patch cord'.

Fine ... well tell them how to do the job TO THE STANDARD, rather than making their installation non-compliant.

BTW: you have stipulated that all 10amp outlets are the same as 15amp outlet (based on one example), and now you say they don't, and that it supports your argument. You're not being very consistent and you risk eroding your own credibility.

Hi guys!

I was wondering if I can run a 15amp welder on a 10amp circuit?
I'm not sure if this question has been addressed on this thread yet!

Oddjob1

Originally Posted by Oddjob1

Hi guys!

I was wondering if I can run a 15amp welder on a 10amp circuit?
I'm not sure if this question has been addressed on this thread yet!

Oddjob1

You can But you may not.

Cricky A Duke,

My old man used to say that to me, you have just been moved into highly regarded zone, although if my old man where alive he would be 95 years old. You've still got a way to go mate!

Cheers...Oddjob1

Oddjob,
You have also moved up by knowing what i meant. It was a favourite answer of my English teacher 60 years ago.
Regards,

A Duke,

you are a good man with a big heart!

Cheers...Oddjob1

Update. I was wrong.

After metaphorically getting off my pimply behind and actually looking at AS/NZS3000, I found that it is not until you hit 20 amps that you need to use a 'single socket-outlet' circuit. So ignore what I've said about 15 amp sockets needing to be completely on their own circuits.

C5.1 Number of Circuits
Each item of equipment that has a current rating in excess of 20A per
phase should be connected to a separate and distinct circuit.

The reference to 'points' in the below table is in a 'ten points for Gryffindor' sense*. You get 1 'point' for each amp in the circuit breaker - if you are on a 16 amp circuit, you use up 15 'points' with a 15 amp outlet, which leaves you 1 'point' to 'spend' on a 10 amp outlet or two lights!


*no, not in that sense.

At the risk of starting another similar argument on a parallel topic here's a story about a horse float. We took it camping for the first time several weeks ago and tried to plug a lead into the float inlet. We soon discovered the inlet was 15A, who knew? So we had no power that weekend for a light, not that we were particularly inconvenienced. When we got home and rang the agent he explained that the Standards for caravans mandates a 15A inlet. So what are we to do when the power supply is a 10A GPO? Well we rewired a lead with a 15A outlet and a 10A plug he said. So on the one hand here's the standards, now here is how to go break them. This is another hot topic on other forums. I did find a site that says it is now legal to have a 10A inlet on caravans as long as certain other circuit conditions are met. It is also legal to have a 15A lead with a 10A plug so long as there is an appropriate device to limit current draw to 10A. Apparently you can buy these. Now I'm not suggesting that you should try one with your welder, that may be illegal. Maybe it would be legal however to plug your caravan into the garage with that lead and then plug your welder into the caravan. (I'm JOKING)
(easy to get tripped up on the web. That site quotes the 2001 standard which has been superseded by 2008 and it is now illegal to install 10A inlets on caravans)

Cheers
Michael

Originally Posted by silentC

You must have a different "posts per page" setting to me, Geoff. I can only handle it in small doses

On the other hand, I couldn't possibly read five pages of this tripe, two is more than enough.

Update. I was wrong.

No kidding.

Here's the webpage of the device I mentioned. Might be worth contacting them asking if it is a legal application for the device. If it is and you get one and it keeps tripping then you know the money was well spent. Except now you have a useless welder and useless rcd device so you might as well ask the landlord if you can pay for a 15A circuit.

Cheers
Michael

sorry to come late to the debate but I have a question for the NO you can't crowd:

If running a 15amp appliance in a 10amp socket is truely dangerous (and not just inconveniently tripping out the breaker), why are the 15amp plugs configured so to fit in the 10amp socket? A little filing is all that is required.

Why would the electrical standards not specifiy a different plug and socket design so as to impose a higher barrier to the dangerous practice?

As a general note, and speaking as a professional lobbyist and ex-public servant guilty of many such things, I would caution people against taking the standards and regulations as gospel on safety, as opposed to legality.

Many, many standards and regulations are decided for:
a) the convenience for and the clarity of administration,
b) the cashflow of the regulated industry,
c) imposing a barrier to competition and new entrants into the new industry,
d) avoidance of liablility or parliamentary scrutiny,
e) getting a story off the front page of the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph
f) personal beliefs of the regs compiler
g) it was after lunch and everyone was sleepy and/or bored.
h) the last flight back to XXXX was soon and the techy guy who knew about this one had to leave to catch it,
i) "lets take this one as read"
j) it was the last sticking point and no-one wanted to come back next month
k) The technical expert was replaced by their administrative manager who was staying over for the weekend (or the tech expert was sick but there were too many senior staff involved to cancel)

Originally Posted by SpiritLevel

If running a 15amp appliance in a 10amp socket is truely dangerous (and not just inconveniently tripping out the breaker), why are the 15amp plugs configured so to fit in the 10amp socket? A little filing is all that is required.

Obviously they didn't think people foolish enough to go messing with things they don't understand. Maybe they were wrong.

Originally Posted by SpiritLevel

Why would the electrical standards not specifiy a different plug and socket design so as to impose a higher barrier to the dangerous practice?

Because the design allows you to plug a 10 amp plug into a 15 amp socket. The design of the 3 phase connectors also allows for lower amp plugs to be plugged into higher amp sockets, but not vice versa. I'm sure this stroke of brilliance must have come before lunch.

Originally Posted by SpiritLevel

As a general note, .......

Maybe we should just ignore the standards then ... or can you highlight the specific areas which you know to be "rubber stamped"?

Seriously a lot of oversight and feedback goes into the "wiring rules" and I doubt stupid/unworkable/pointless rules would last very long (go back and look at how long the 15amp sockets have been in the standard).