Thread: Advice

There certainly no reason I can think of not to cool it down between runs.Water would certainly be a quick way. Why not have a bucket and just dip it in ?.

I do not think you will be getting burn throughs on 3mm sheet with 2.6 rods with the appropriate amp setting
Do 4 or 5 beads and dip and re start the sequence again.

Grahame

Originally Posted by garfield

Is it possible to squirt water between little beads to cool it down before the next bead so that it cools down and don't get so hit and burn holes?

I'm sorry if this is a ridiculous question.

This is not the way to weld 1 mm thin wall tubing with an arc. The way to do it is practice for a couple of weeks on 3 mm plate, then 2.5, then 2, then 1.6, then 1.2 then 1 mm. After 20 years intermittent farting around I can sort of do 1.6 mm with an arc but 1.2 or less I take to BILs MIG.

Cheers

I brought some 1.6mm rods today, searched everywhere for them though, even had a couple of places say to me that they are like hens teeth now with so many people using migs for thin stuff.

Anyhow I found a place by accident at Penrith - which is in Sydney's west and they had heaps of them, so I brought a box for $20.

Now after the "pick your bottom lip up" chip at me from Grahame I decided to rip in some more today. I've gotta say that I got ab it carried away at first with the 1.6mm rods, thinking that I could just go hard and they wouldn't blow a hole..... WRONG!! I soon sorted that out and started to take my time a little More than I did before. I started out doing a short-ish bead then chip the slag, wire brush then spray some water which really didn't make too much difference - in that I could still only do the same length before having to stop trying not to blow a hole.

Then I started to work out that I was more so blowing holes in the open end of the pole rather than the full piece because I was trying to get a good bead in there, but because there is a thin gap between the pieces to be welded and It was just blowing the end out and once that starts the rest just crumbles and follows.

I started to do little spots, but made sure it was good spots (as I've got better over three straight days) either side, chipped the slag then wire brushed, then continued up the gap. Once I had either side done I slowly did the same to fill the small gap with the rod, once again chipped the slag and wire brushed. I found once I had that gap filled I could concentrate more on getting a real good bead in there.... the 1.6mm rods made a difference in allowing me to do that for sure.

The welds that I have done seem alot stronger than they did yesterday. Does that sound OK? Is that how you would attack and fill a gap with a good bead?

They're not real good, but I've taken a couple of snaps. I'll take some better ones tomorrow and post them.


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Ok garfield,
I can now see what you are trying to achieve. I had previously thought you where trying to butt weld the cut ends of the tube together as per an end to end joint.

Again I would say ,get your technique perfected on the thicker plate .Once you can run a decent bead on that ,your chances of adhering one bit of tube to its adjacent component shall be greatly increased.Otherwise you won't know if it is you or the difficulty of the joint causing the failures.

The problem is now really obvious. The moment that the arc picks up that cut edge -poof! it burns the cut edge away.
The zinc coat ,reacts to the arc, flares up and causes part of the burn through problem. First of all file the zinc coating off the tube around where it is to be welded..
Note I said file , NOT grind it, otherwise you shall lose wall thickness.

Take the cut edge and hammer the cut end to a flat edge meeting in the centerline of the tube. That shall double your thickness and give you at least a fighting chance.

Next you need to reduce the exposure of the cut side to the arc. Laying the electrode nearly horizontal to the cut tube and with the arc end pointed at the uncut side -tack
( really quick like 1 second,2 seconds -stop!) each end of the flat.Chip the flux off the tack welds and brush.

Keeping the electrode angle nearly flat to the cut tube, say 10 degrees weld along the join.

Grahame

I did flatten the ends of the pipe to be attached, but I didn't completely flatten them..... So it would be better to completely flatten them?

I sanded the edges and also where the pipe attached to the other pipe.... not grinded

Originally Posted by garfield

I'm convinced I should just give up!!!!! I've spent 2 days non stop welding, and I still haven't got it.

Surely the migs sh@t all over stick welders...?? I'm sure everyone prefers the mig, even the pros.

Hi garfeild, I've been using the best and worst migs for year, but I had do a job on site and after finally finding arc welder and scrapping a foot of dust off it, I loved it, felt like a real welder for change, stick with it, get some 3mm or 5mm plate, crank up the arc and go for it, as you get the jist of it, drop your amps and increase your angle of the rod, it'll come to you sooner not later. great thread, I dont respond much to these, are far better qualified welders here than I am but hang in there.

Originally Posted by yogie

Hi garfeild, I've been using the best and worst migs for year, but I had do a job on site and after finally finding arc welder and scrapping a foot of dust off it, I loved it, felt like a real welder for change, stick with it, get some 3mm or 5mm plate, crank up the arc and go for it, as you get the jist of it, drop your amps and increase your angle of the rod, it'll come to you sooner not later. great thread, I dont respond much to these, are far better qualified welders here than I am but hang in there.

Thanks Yogie

Originally Posted by garfield

So it would be better to completely flatten them?

Yep! Flat parallel edges.

The tube end after flattening should look a bit like a chisel point with square ends.Tack up with no gaps.

Keep your arc as short as possible.It is better to put the amps up if needed to run the arc -and keep your arc very short .
A longer arc increases voltage ( which is heat in arc terms ) which of course you don't need.
By now there must be a marked improvement since you have started.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

By now there must be a marked improvement since you have started.
Grahame

So they'll be just as strong welded that way..??

And yeah I have improved with yours and the others help Grahame..... Its much appreciated too.

Thanks boys

I've had it!! I'm taking it to my Uncle who has a mig and he is a welder by trade..... It's a fair drive, but I had enough of the holes it's blowing in the poles.

If you guys out there needed to weld something with a 1mm wall, would you persevere with it - or would you just use a mates - or wahatever way you could get to one - use a mig for the job?

Ahem! Cough! Cough! Cough!

Well you can't say, that we did not try to tell you that welding 1mm with stick was very difficult and was not for learners.

While I don't know what sort of mig your uncle has of course but my gut feeling is there won't be a marked improvement on what you already have.

Setting up a mig for welding for welding this thin material may involve a smaller wire diameter than your uncle already has, different size contact tips for the new wire diameter a different liner, different set of drive rolls to suit the wire, and a different shielding gas to suit the material thickness. Ang this is assuming your uncle has experience with 1 mm thickness material.

For that potential outlay possibly $150 or better you can get a good amount of brazing done or maybe buy a smll cylinder and burner for under that figure. Maybe you could be lucky and uncle may have the required goodies to go.

Oxy welding or brazing or even tig is the way to to go there.What ever you are doing 1mm thick material is not the ideal thickness to learn your welding skills on.

If you have LPG , I am fairly you sure could use it to braze with although I have not done it myself.
There will be others who can advise you from here I am sure.

Grahame,

NOPE!!! you're spot on Grahame. Got to my uncles place, he took one look at what I wanted welded and told me I'm nuts (and a couple other expletives) and that I should go with something thicker. He's a fitter and turner, but is retired and been out of the game for a while. He said the worst thing was not only just how thin the wall was, but also that it was Galvanized!

He tried to do it for me with both his MIG and his inverter stick welder and cursed me the whole time!! He went on about how if it were steel (even the same thickness) that he'd be half a chance. He did weld it, but was upset with the hoes and stuff - coz he's a perfectionist welder.

I'm going to Bunnings tomorrow and I'm buying some 3mm wall square tube and I'm making myself some legs out of that. Alot of you out there probably can't see what the fuss is about with these legs I wanna make, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and if I make something I want it to not only look good, but also it has to look as if I'd paid for it. I've spent a fair bit of money on just making the carcase and the knick - knacks and the like, and I don't want a leg system that 1 don't work that great and 2 that doesn't stand the test of time, and 3 that doesn't look good - or fold away and make it compact and a space saver.

the best way to get across what I'm trying to achieve is to give you the link to the genius that I'm trying to copy. check it out, the bloke is a freak with his ideas i reckon. he's just a bit on the expensive side and that's why i wanted to make my own.

http://www.drifta.com.au/setDPOS.htm

Garfield if you get the chance before you spend your money at bunnings go to edcon steel at blacktown Penny place just off the Great Western Highway and price your material there 20mm x 2mm shs should be suitable for what you are trying to achieve.
They will cut to size as ive said before but will discount the price for full lengths.
They will still charge a small cutting fee for cutting a length in half (around $1.50).
Should find you would nearly get a full length from them for the same cost of 1/2 a length from bunnings.
Your choice though but a hardware store is not the place to buy your steel from.

Ok, I went down to Edcon steel (thanks pieclay) and brought some 25x25 2mm wall. What size rod would you use? 2.5 ok?