Thread: Are There Any Aids To Seeing ?

I'm with Grahame that you are pushing the envelope with 1mm gal. Even with solid wire its a cow of a weld to make. There is little doubt that you will be able to join the material with gasless wire and a 130amp welder, however as Grahame said above

I would expect a bench mark for a sucessfull outcome to be:

• A flat bead with good fusion along the majority % of edge.
• Little spatter
• Good appearance.

You won't get any of these

BUT, if you are doing a project from 1mm wall RHS then you aren't building something where lives will be at risk should the welds fail (hopefully) so I say it is a doable weld.

Fluxcore is designed to burn hot and deposit extra large volume - the very opposite of what you require.

This is why you'll never find fluxcore in a panel shop, but you'll definitely find the stuff in a earthmoving equipment repair shop.

I'll grab some 0.9 gal offcuts at work tomorrow and see how I go welding them.

Originally Posted by abrogard

I'm talking about welding galvanised rhs 1.5" x 1" x 1mm (if you'll forgive a mix of imperial and metric units) and I'm talking about trying to weld it with flux cored wire of 0.8mm diameter run from a cheap 130amp MIG welder.

And that's what I assume everyone who responds to the thread is talking about unless they state differently.

It seems to me yourself and Mr Edster are stating quite baldly that this kind of welding CANNOT be done.

Maybe you can get it done but I think you'll struggle. AND blame yourself rather than the equipment.

Most home handymen get along with a stick welder and then later want to upgrade to something that will do thinner more delicate work.

They are misdirected by unscrupulous or ignorant sales people towards a gasless mig. The sales pitch being that it's saving you from getting gas and it will do thin stuff if you stick in the thin fluxcore wire. The actual truth being that gasless mig is used on thick material.

Then the poor customers either blame themselves for blowing holes everywhere and doing a poor weld or they accept a noticably lower standard of weld (appearance *and* strength) than they would expect from their stick welder. You could have bolted it together stronger.

Guys try to do their car panels and it doesn't work out.

I am just a beginner hobbyist. I've completed a short general welding course and a year long TIG course and currently doing a 3 year fabrication course which includes MIG. Three different TAFE instructors have expressed similar sentiments towards the gasless MIG for hobbyists. Grahame has probably expressed it the mildest.

They get those questions every year and they have no reason to lead you towards a bad entry level machine. It would be awesome if gasless was a good way to start learning but I think you are heading towards a lot of grief - Which is not good for someone starting out in terms of learning.

Pretty sure i got some 1mm gal in the shed. Might give it a crack today, see how it turns out on a gas mig set up.

Will post some pics

Cheers

UglyDan

Well found this peice of 1mm gal to try out


Heres a few short runs, just playing around with settings


Some good penetration, especially the middle run but maybe the voltage was a bit to high.


Here's an attempt at a joining the two, just did 3 small runs(which is pretty obvious with my welds) You can see right at the end it blew out but good penetration all the way.


Still new at this so i appologise for crappy welds, plus i havent played around with the thin stuff too much yet. The Fumes that came off this stuff was HORRIBLE, luckly i was wearing an expensive face mask with the right filters! I dont plan to play around with gal too much after that! Also found i had to grind back the gal a little to reduce the fumes and splatter that came of it.

Cheers

UglyDan

I'm pushed for time. Thanks for the responses. I'll come back later. Just wanted to let Dan know that his pics are only tiny thumbnails when I try to get 'em. Not the 480 x 640 they're supposed to be.

Pity, because I'd like to see them. Something I can fix, Dan, or you?

Originally Posted by abrogard

Pity, because I'd like to see them. Something I can fix, Dan, or you?

Click on the picture and it'll open the full sized one. Imageshack doesn't allow hotlinking of fullsize images...

WRT to not seeing the weld properly, reflection + weight of the hood - has anyone here tried pancake hoods? Apparently they improve the visibility of the weld a lot by cutting down on glare and is very lightweight.

I always wanted to convert to a pancake hood but never encountered anyone using them.

Looks like something I saw in Bangladesh once...

hahah classic!

Here's another health and safety pic:P



Cheers

UglyDan

Well it's not working for me. Not any of the other links, either. Is it working for other people?

The wendyspancakes one doesn't work, either.

I thought it might be my browser: Oracle, so I changed to Firefox, no different.

I'm still pushed for time...........

===============

Later edit to save posting twice in a row:

Right, well it looks like the unanimous opinion of the experts is that my kind of welding is NOT possible.

Unless you loosely interpret 'welding'.

But for the professional, the expert, 'welding' means certain standards and these CANNOT be achieved in my kind of welding.

And 'my kind of welding', let's define that again: Flux cored MIG at 0.8mm on galvanised steel at 1mm thick.


SO: this leads directly to the next question which is: What must I do to be able to weld this stuff?

Which is referred to as '..a cow of a job..' in any case.

I do this kind of welding because I like the material. It is cheap and strong, durable and can be used in many applications. I get it for $3/mtr and use it for everything from fence rails (which is what it is sold as) to tables.

I file or abrade the gal off before I weld.

What I'm trying to do is learn to weld thin metal. My objective is to weld car panels.

Looks like I'm entirely barking up the wrong tree.

I'll attach a couple of pics. Of my admittedly terrible ('terrible' is the word, without a doubt, don't think I do't know it) welds on this stuff. Don't forget I got two problems: the apparent impossibility of it and (remember?) I can't see the job.


And of someone else's welds on the same stuff. His done by a stick welder I'd say. I'd be interested in what anyone had to say about them, too.

Though, even though I can already do a better job with stick, done it before, it is not the way I want to go - because, as I said, I'm aiming for an ability on car panels and I don't think that's achievable down the stick route.

If it is, okay, I then might revert back to stick.

If your goal is to successfully weld thin material with your mig, you'll need to buy gas and some 0.6 wire. 1mm mild steel amp range needs to be 35-40 or so. Just about to go out now and have a go at some gal I got from work, will do both gas and gasless welds.

Originally Posted by BenM78

If your goal is to successfully weld thin material with your mig, you'll need to buy gas and some 0.6 wire. 1mm mild steel amp range needs to be 35-40 or so. Just about to go out now and have a go at some gal I got from work, will do both gas and gasless welds.

Ok, I just went and had a go at the 0.9mm gal with both gasless and gas. Anyone want to buy a cheap italian mig? Does gas and gasless welding...

Seriously though, mate you really need to get some heavier material. I weld for a job and I really struggled to get a join to happen... My mig is 35A @15.7v The gasless was slightly better, I seem to be having some problems with my gas and or the welder as i was getting stray arcs jumping around all over the place. The gas I have is pure argon left over from tigging. I did not have this when I welded the boat trailer so I'd guess at a voltage stability issue in the welder at the lowest voltage settings.

Yes I have changed my tune here. I guess that comes from having proper training in welding and being able to now see the limitations in my machine.

I DO however stand by my claim that these machines still have a place and can capably join metal at their designed range.

This prolly not going to add anything useful to the discussion and I have to say upfront that the advice given thus far is spot on. But,

I remember in ' 04 using 0.8mm galvanized sheet to patch up my car - cowley, inner sills, foot wells, etc.

I used a Miller 150 Amp MIG with CO2 gas and 0.8mm wire - can't remember the settings.

I grinded the zinc coating off close to the weld and always wore a respirator when I welded the stuff.

Only way I managed to obtain something decent was to make a gazillion tacks and then go over that to produce a fair looking bead and ensure nice penetration. The tacks were there more to provide some beef to the edge for the 2nd pass to prevent blow thro than actually joining the edges. Needless to say it was very slow going and impatience only led to blow through and distortion.

Eventually I hated myself for ever attempting the project at all. And I ended up close to death due to zinc fever - but that's another story. Needless to say I avoid galvy like the plague and do'nt like to do bodywork anymore.

Nowadays I prefer to tackle thin sheet with oxyacetylene as I find it much easier to control and the weld much easier to work with. I hardly ever touch the MIG and TIG. Arc and OA for me.

IMHO, with a lot of effort you can probably make do with what you have on body panels. You going to have a fight all along the way though. Bodywork should be done as clean as possible, with as little heat input as possible and I have never seen the sense in using fluxcored wire for body panels. Imagine preparing a patch for an external panel, getting it the correct shape, patiently welding it in so that it does'nt distort and then when you're done start hammering the panel with a chipping hammer!

For your other projects I guess fluxcored wire will be acceptable but please reconsider when it comes to bodywork.

But, then again I'm hardly a professional weldor and just like you, make do with whatever is at hand and basta common sense.

Pity the links arnt working for you, works fine on my end? Try logging out, then go back to thread and view. Happens to me too when im logged on. I use firefox aswell.

Anyhow I used a MIG with argon + c02 mix and 0.9mm wire. Got some good penetration, even gave it a hammer test and broke the parent metal. Nasty stuff to weld though.

Cheers

UglyDan