Thread: auto-darkening masks from ebay/Bunnings

Originally Posted by jabell

Pity they all are covered in artwork - makes me feel I should go dancing through a field with a flower between my teeth.... Black would suit me, but guess I'll have to go with it.

I've got a Lincoln 3350 in Gloss Black, it's a really nice helmet, can't fault it, having an alternate choice of cheap $99 helmets or $300 + 3M helmets despite having multiple dedicated welding stores locally the 3350 was a clear cut choice for me.

Paid $240 for mine at Taylor Engineering? in Narellan, NSW sep 13'

When I was purchasing another helmet I did a bunch of research. Much of it on weldingweb or migweldinguk forums. I found that it came down between the Miller Digital Elite and the Speedglas from 3m. I went the Digital Elite as I found there were far less people getting a great burst of bright light with them. Speedglas seemed to have the light burst issue.

I will refrain from calling the bright burst of light "flashed", as I do not mean flash burn. I have never experienced any "scratchy eye" or eye irritation from welding even with cheap helmets. I agree with Grahame that it is a misnomer. My only complaint was that the cheap helmets operate poorly with TIG welding especially if you have fluorescent lights in the background or when sunlight is piercing into my shed. As mentioned a mate had exactly the same issues. The Digital Elite also has X-band which a lot of people have reported success with. That said, I have never needed to use it, as it works flawlessly on the "normal" settings. No more flash great bursts of bright light!

Grahame made a minor typo with the weight. It is 425 grams, not the 4.2kg mentioned. Oh, and for the record, I jumped on the matt black coloured variety. Forget any of those kitsch "designs".

I believe that flashed is the correct term to use when the sensors are blocked, or overall reaction doesn't match up at times, as the effect is very much akin to a camera flash up close. Momentarily blinding, short term impairment, then all good. Too much may lead to some strain pain, as is the case with receiving too much bright light. The lense as it is cuts the harmful radiation from reaching your eyes regardless of darkening. The style of safety glasses you wear will help to further reduce that (ie clear - not at all, light tint - slightly, dark tint - more).

Originally Posted by LordBug

I believe that flashed is the correct term to use when the sensors are blocked, or overall reaction doesn't match up at times, as the effect is very much akin to a camera flash up close. Momentarily blinding, short term impairment, then all good. Too much may lead to some strain pain, as is the case with receiving too much bright light. The lense as it is cuts the harmful radiation from reaching your eyes regardless of darkening. The style of safety glasses you wear will help to further reduce that (ie clear - not at all, light tint - slightly, dark tint - more).

'Flashed" is the the term we used in the industry for the eye damaging arc welding flash. ( Or talking about careless lasses in micro mini skirts in the good old days)

dark safety glasses are oK in the shed but not under the helmet.You are just adding another level of dark filter to see through.Ok perhaps for adjustable filters but not real good on a fixed one

The damaging part of the UV rays stops right at the helmet cover lens ,or if you have no helmet at all and just wearing your safety glasses. You will get the bright visible light part of the spectrum through ta slow electronic filter lens but its been listed as "uncomfortable" and the following link speaks about this.

I have been looking for the following link over the last few days as it supports the points that I have been trying to get across:

Welding Helmets - What you need to know before you buy | This article will point out the most important things to consider before investing in this important piece of safety gear | Equipment & Automation content from Welding Design & Fabrication

As a young boiler maker I also was well educated on this this subject both through the AMWSU and the Australian Welding Institute before it changed its name and went all commercial.

Also text books supported the bit on the UV and how the harmful non visible wave length was pulled up by safety glasses or the front lens of your helmet, but now I have got this :

Welding - Radiation and the Effects On Eyes and Skin : OSH Answers

These are reputable sources and I recommend them to to you.

Cheers
Grahame

Originally Posted by variant22

When I was purchasing another helmet I did a bunch of research. Much of it on weldingweb or migweldinguk forums. I found that it came down between the Miller Digital Elite and the Speedglas from 3m. I went the Digital Elite as I found there were far less people getting a great burst of bright light with them. Speedglas seemed to have the light burst issue.

I will refrain from calling the bright burst of light "flashed", as I do not mean flash burn. I have never experienced any "scratchy eye" or eye irritation from welding even with cheap helmets. I agree with Grahame that it is a misnomer. My only complaint was that the cheap helmets operate poorly with TIG welding especially if you have fluorescent lights in the background or when sunlight is piercing into my shed. As mentioned a mate had exactly the same issues. The Digital Elite also has X-band which a lot of people have reported success with. That said, I have never needed to use it, as it works flawlessly on the "normal" settings. No more flash great bursts of bright light!

Grahame made a minor typo with the weight. It is 425 grams, not the 4.2kg mentioned. Oh, and for the record, I jumped on the matt black coloured variety. Forget any of those kitsch "designs".

I have both the Speedglas and the Miller DE, never had a problem with either. The X-Mode on the Miller is really useful with TIG when you back the pedal off and drop the amps back. I'd recommend either of those helmets any day.

Graham - thanks for posting those links.

Thanks Grahame. So according to the article you linked to, a (cheaper) lower speed helmet can cause eye problems?

Switching Speed (Lens Reaction Time)
The quicker a welder's eyes are shaded from the high-intensity light, the better. Too slow a reaction time will cause eye discomfort that feels like a dry scratchy sensation sometimes referred to as arc flash. Entry-level lenses often are rated at 1/3,600 of a second switching speed. Intermediate and professional level helmets switch at speeds as high as 1/16,000 of a second or faster. Some manufactures advertise this rating in a decimal; to compare those ratings, divide 1 into 3,600 for the decimal equivalent. Generally speaking, the faster the switching speed, the more expensive the helmet and lens.
So why pay more for a faster lens? In a word: Comfort.

If you spend all day welding with a lens rated at 1/3,600, which I considered a slower reaction time, your eyes will feel fatigued by the end of the day and could have the dry, scratchy symptoms of arc flash as mentioned earlier.

With faster switching speeds, these effects are eliminated.

Which tends to bear out my experience with them. I think auto darkening helmets are wonderful, but I still believe faster switching times are better which are usually more expensive helmets.

Michael

Problems such as discomfort ,ie the gritty eye etc but not the permanent eye damage, where its has been said that welding with the low speeds cause eye damage.

Yep! sure its about comfort .

On another level if you have owned an earlier Speedglass, the harness was a major source of discomfort, My ears would catch in the doover that adjusted the tilt of the helmet.

Originally Posted by Ch4iS

I've got a Lincoln 3350 in Gloss Black, it's a really nice helmet, can't fault it, having an alternate choice of cheap $99 helmets or $300 + 3M helmets despite having multiple dedicated welding stores locally the 3350 was a clear cut choice for me.

Paid $240 for mine at Taylor Engineering? in Narellan, NSW sep 13'

So what do you think of the big screen? I'm only an occasional welder, so a long way from being a tradesman, and I think getting a good view will help reduce my birdshit runs, or at least I'll see them in the making instead of reviewing after....

I had a bit more of a read of the ANSI standard.

The switching speeds quoted by manufacturers are not a simple ON-OFF switching of the filter. The ANSI test for switching speeds requires the reporting of a "Switching index" which takes into account that high speed switching is not a step function but has a curved response sometimes with a long tail.

When a filter is switched its transmittance drops rapidly at first so it achieves shades 8-9-10 very rapidly but then it takes longer to get to shade 11 and longer still to get to shades 12 and 13. The switching index formula actually only uses the time taken for the filter to get to the shade before the final shade.

Like a few other things I really wonder if these tests are being done correctly or for that matter if they just make up a few numbers to look good on the box.

Originally Posted by jabell

So what do you think of the big screen? I'm only an occasional welder, so a long way from being a tradesman, and I think getting a good view will help reduce my birdshit runs, or at least I'll see them in the making instead of reviewing after....

It's nice to have but I personally don't see any advantage over the smaller viewing area units when trying to improve weld quality, I'm just a hobby welder but getting the settings right and technique in order has helped me more than anything.

Originally Posted by jabell

So what do you think of the big screen? I'm only an occasional welder, so a long way from being a tradesman, and I think getting a good view will help reduce my birdshit runs, or at least I'll see them in the making instead of reviewing after....

This is only an opinion of course, but some of the models are tricky in what they have you perceive.. From the welding side they display a nice big aperture all cobalt purple or whatever color it is.The filter screen appears to be very much bigger than it is often subsequently is found to be. The big lens cover in fact sometimes covers the lens aperture and the the sensors.

Turn the shield around and check the dimensions of the viewing port through the electronic filter. Oopps! Quite a few that I notice carry a filter ( view port) not that much bigger than a standard helmet screen. Looks bigger on the front because sensors and welding filter are the same color.The back side of the sensor is filled up with plastic panel and control buttons.

As far as the birdshitt is concerned my thoughts are that that may be reduced./now improved by not needing to lower the shield, providing you with the use of your non dominant hand to assist the stability of the electrode.

If your not concerned about the glove too much, place the non dominant hand - LH for most - within say 50mm/75mm of the arc. It does take some getting used to but, if you place a length of stripped out old worn out glove over the finger and hand areas it reduces the heat and protects the main glove and of course your fingers. The index finger of non dominant hand supports the last 50 - 75 mm of the arcing electrode and reduces electrode wobble.

The idea is you have the support hand in contact with the bench or the work.The technique works fairly well for for short length beads but longer ones are trickier due to the arc moving out of centre line with the body. being out to one side you tend to follow it with your body and end up out of balance .

This is stuff welding tradies do instinctively and all boils down to minimizing the distance between body and electrode-the closer your body is the shorter span your arms have to bridge.

Sounds weird does it? Take a brick and hold it at arms length and see how long you can hold it steady for! Its similar for welding. The further you have the arc away from the body the more the shake! Of course you still have to follow the other basics: Travel speed,arc length,drag angle, and using correct gauge electrode to suit amps.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

This is only an opinion of course, but some of the models are tricky in what they have you perceive.. From the welding side they display a nice big aperture all cobalt purple or whatever color it is.The filter screen appears to be very much bigger than it is often subsequently is found to be. The big lens cover in fact sometimes covers the lens aperture and the the sensors.

Turn the shield around and check the dimensions of the viewing port through the electronic filter. Oopps! Quite a few that I notice carry a filter ( view port) not that much bigger than a standard helmet screen. Looks bigger on the front because sensors and welding filter are the same color.The back side of the sensor is filled up with plastic panel and control buttons.

The Lincoln I tried in the store was wall to wall sensor! My existing old Thommen mask has only a small section of auto-darken screen, the rest being standard filter glass, so trying a 97x85mm one piece screen was amazing. - I'm aiming to get it next saturday, so I'll be interested to try it out.

Must admit I'd never considered using my left hand to steady the electrode, but I guess with the new mask it will become a moot point.
I will try it out though, as it is a useful tip. Thanks!

Originally Posted by jabell

Must admit I'd never considered using my left hand to steady the electrode, but I guess with the new mask it will become a moot point.
I will try it out though, as it is a useful tip. Thanks!

I have very shaky hands, so bad that at one stage I was cutting rods in half so the end of the rod wouldn't shake as much.
Have used my left hand to steady the stick quite often and find it works quite well.
Sometimes I just hold cross my left arm in front of me and hold part of the work or place it on the vice and place the underneath of my right forearm on top of my left arm and that also helps steady the stick
The other thing boilermaker BIL taught me was to lean on something (like the bench) with my hip. That helps quite a bit.

Thought I would throw in my experience with auto darkening helmets ...

A long time ago (many, many years) I purchased one of the basic fixed shade Tecman helmets, which seemed to work well initially, but eventually started playing up i.e. if left in a dark shed for too long, it would have trouble triggering (I would have to leave it in the sun for a little while to fix this).

Then when I started TIG welding and at low amps the Tecman would not trigger at all. It was more pronounced on either AC or DC, but I can't remember which.

After a bit of research I decided to buy this helmet. For less than $US60 + postage it has quite impressive features:

4 sensors
Fairly large viewing area 98 x 55
Variable shade and sensitivity
Grinding/welding switch (I don't use it)
Switch time 1/30,000 sec

Now having used this helmet for quite some time (nearly a year), I must say I love it. Never had it not trigger and the triggering issue I was having with low amp TIG is completely gone ... in fact it switches dark as soon as the HF start comes one (even if there is no arc).