Thread: buying first mig - have 20 amp fuse but 10 amp plug outlets in shed..

thanks DJ, i understand the importance of the point you are making - I never EVER want to get arc eye- apart from the huge damage it can do to your vision and( judging from people i have had to deal with in hospita)l it is excrutiatingly painful. So i'm also after a good welding helmet as part of the package. Can you advise me as to what makes the Speedglass helmets so much more expensive - are there lenses either extremley good quality or do they do something over and above what normal welding helmet lense/quality do. I've been thinking of getting the 9-13 range DIN auto adjust type one..but is Speedglass better/different (apart from being hugely more expensive)?
Look forward to any advice/suggestions

I have seen cords melt and powerpoints melt ,explode , catch on fire etc due to prolonged exceeding of the rated capacity .On the other hand running a jug 2400watts and cay a toaster 1200w and a caravan hotwater system 1800w [total 5400watts/240v =22.5 amps] doesnt seem a problem for a few minutes pluged into one 10 amp power point.The toaster and jug are only on for a couple of minutes .But if the hot water 1800w and say a heater 2000w [total 3800w/240v =15.8 amps]are on for a prolonged period the cord and powerpoint will gradually get hot and somthing could melt,blow up or catch on fire .Thats the worst case senerio if the breaker doesnt trip or fuse melt.

Is it true that watts divided by volts =.amps or is that an oversimplification?

So theoretically even if the welder running flatout ,maximum settings countinuous draws 15 amps if it has a duty cycle of 60% the average draw will be less than 10 amps and the wiring ,powerpoint cords etc will not overheat at all .Thats if the only thing you run on that series of 10 amp power points is the 15 amp welder at 66% duty cycle or less .

I could well be wrong and am quite happy to be corrected but that has been my observation and experience and the numbers [watts , volts amps] do seem to confirm that although I,m not an electrician .

Originally Posted by Mathuranatha

I have seen cords melt and powerpoints melt ,explode , catch on fire etc due to prolonged exceeding of the rated capacity .On the other hand running a jug 2400watts and cay a toaster 1200w and a caravan hotwater system 1800w [total 5400watts/240v =22.5 amps] doesnt seem a problem for a few minutes pluged into one 10 amp power point.The toaster and jug are only on for a couple of minutes .But if the hot water 1800w and say a heater 2000w [total 3800w/240v =15.8 amps]are on for a prolonged period the cord and powerpoint will gradually get hot and somthing could melt,blow up or catch on fire .Thats the worst case senerio if the breaker doesnt trip or fuse melt.

Is it true that watts divided by volts =.amps or is that an oversimplification?

So theoretically even if the welder running flatout ,maximum settings countinuous draws 15 amps if it has a duty cycle of 60% the average draw will be less than 10 amps and the wiring ,powerpoint cords etc will not overheat at all .Thats if the only thing you run on that series of 10 amp power points is the 15 amp welder at 66% duty cycle or less .

I could well be wrong and am quite happy to be corrected but that has been my observation and experience and the numbers [watts , volts amps] do seem to confirm that although I,m not an electrician .

If you buy a wleder with a 15A plug, plug it into a 15A outlet. If you buy a welder with a 10A plug, plug it into a 10A outlet. We could argue with facts and figures, and I've seen this but my mate said that, but really, it's as simple as plug the right socket into the right outlet (assuming they are all wired safely) and you won't melt anything.

Originally Posted by Mathuranatha

So theoretically even if the welder running flatout ,maximum settings countinuous draws 15 amps if it has a duty cycle of 60% the average draw will be less than 10 amps and the wiring ,powerpoint cords etc will not overheat at all .Thats if the only thing you run on that series of 10 amp power points is the 15 amp welder at 66% duty cycle or less .

Although it may work out in your favor, I'm not sure it's wise to use the welders duty cycle or even an average consumption when determining if a 15A appliance can be run off a 10A plug (which it shouldn't be anyway).

Unless you can answer these questions with any certainty, I would be hesitant to try it:
How long can you weld continuously before things start to melt?
Will that time be the same for all different brands of 10A GPO's?

Using that logic you could run your welder off speaker wire, if you average it consumption out over a week (probably even a day).

exactly i have been using a 160 amp welder on a 10 amp plug for years and never blown a 16 amp fuse but only on say 120 amps . Some times the theory gets in the way of reality . only time it ever acted up was when the earth pin got dirty from some spilt crap on the plug
preparing for the flames

hey woodmama
i'm almost too scared to answer but hear goes...speedglass utility is an exelent choice as as they are a market leader. and the mecinisim would be of hi grade. i use a "perfomance lightning" miller brand. i'm not saying to get this as i also use a tig welder for stainless and alloy as well. (i love my hot rod and race cars). this would be way overkill for you. i chose this one because some auto lenses do play up with the frequencies that are involved in GTAW (gas tunstan arch welding) also called "tig" welding for short. here is a link to look at http://www.nationalwelding.com.au/helmets.htm i got mine through them and had it delivered to the hunter for me. no driving and no fuss. you still need to compare prices. but it might be a guide. this company relys on the welding industry so it doesn't deal in rubbish. i hope this helps and i hope i dont get crucified becaue i brought the wrong helmet or something. just make sure you have warrenty on the unit. these units are very scary to use if you are a seasoned welder...but once you get out of the habit of lifting the mask and squinting every time you press the trigger...then ther're magic. mind you i have got a couple of doses of eye strain when i go back to the old helmet.
hope this helps
glen boulton
P.S. sorry about the technical stuff...i'm just trying to minimise the political fall out. once again this is only my opinion and should not be a basis on what makes you decide on as a final purchase...(god i hoped i covered myself enough)

i think i understand swahili better ....LOL...i'll check out that website and see whats available, i thought that maybe the speedglass helmets were 24K gold plated or something with some of the prices the BOC guy was telling me the other day. I will go with an autodarkening one for sure so I dont have to have to worry about flipping the face down on it..plus is it recommended to wear safety glasses of some sort underneath the helmet as well? Also does it matter whether it is solar powered or not??.- is there any advantage/disadvantage to either?...thanks

Originally Posted by woodmama

.plus is it recommended to wear safety glasses of some sort underneath the helmet as well? Also does it matter whether it is solar powered or not??.- is there any advantage/disadvantage to either?...thanks

I ended up buying http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=140314034721 I'll be picking it up later this week when I'm in the area so can't tell you from first hand how good it is but specs look decent. It also has a one year warranty. I think most autdarkening masks from welding stores are a rip off from what I saw. Saw the same mask identical mask I bought for $250 It's like anything. Pays to shop around.

Switching time is important. Some only do 1/10,000th of a second, especially the cheaper ones and also the one Bunnings sells for $80-$90. Preferrably you want a higher switching speed to avoid flash.

Another factor is DIN. How dark it goes. Old helmets had set DIN filters and some cheap autohelmets (older ones) also have one din setting. I think you want an adjustable DIN so you can dial in what you need. Pay attention however to the chart on the box (you can see it down the bottom of the page at the link I provided). It shows you what safe din settings are for what work you'll be donig at varying amps etc.

Solar powered..hmm advantage is you don't need to keep changing batteries. I ended up getting a mix. Solar powered with a backup li-on battery which self charges.

mine is, so i never have battery problems. but you dont go through batteries often in them. as long as you turn them off. just be carefull ...i think that when they are turned off the shade is light and wont darken, so be carefull. i have never turned mine off. and i do use my varible shade settings alot. and yes you should wear glasses will a helmet for spark bounce and eye strain reasons. i hope i haven't confused you
glen boulton

thanks for the info montiee - yeah i would like to hear about how they go - i had a look at the website and they look really good ! . I'd be interested to hear how you think they compare with the more expensive ones. I like the fact they are over X2 more faster with their response time - that is a definite selling point.

np's glen, i get what you're saying - do you just use normal clear safety glasses under your helmet for added protection - or something else?.

i will definitely get a 15 amp outlet fitted if i get a welder with a 15 amp plug. i do like the cig welders for the sake they are 10 amp - so i guess it comes to a trade off of total cost overall. So far the best price i've got on a Cigweld 165 mig is $990.00. If anyone knows if I can get it for a better price, I would appreciate it

cheers

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, been busy.

As to what helmet to buy.

I have used 4 different auto darkening helmets and can say that the Speedglas are very good, have never owned one as they were always supplied. Been along time since I was in the welding game but in the last 2 yrs for my own use at home I have tried the Tecmen that is or was available for $99 of which I no longer use as I found the adjusting hardware for the headmount weak and subsequently failed not to mention that the response time was to slow as I got blinded when the arc was struck but never suffered from the much dreaded hot sand in the eyes effect as the normal clear lens had UV protection on them.

Of the others I've tried, one was the Speedglas from many years ago (10 or so yrs) and gave good faultless performance and was still in use when I visit them about 2 yrs ago, mind you this is been used in a work environment of at least 16hrs a week.

The thrid one was a slightly more upscale unit from Tecmen again and again had problems with the headmount ( must have an odd head ) but at least this one had a better response time and didn't blind me for that first strike of the arc.

And finally, I'm currently using Cigweld Weldskill as shown in this thread and to date I have had no problems and is still giving me good performance, have used it with MIG, ARC and TIG. I am quite happy with this unit and can recommend it.

Oh and as in regards to whether to wear a pair of safety glasses in conjunction with the welding helmet, I would as safety glasses by law must have UV protection and this alone will help to protect your eyes if you do get flashed

yeah clear is fine. you dont want to add to your leval set on the helmet.

there is a bloke on here that is a welding guru his name is Grahame Collins, i have read a fair bit of stuff that he has writen.

i noticed in one post he made he mentioned something which was told to me by my tafe welding teacher....this will put a cat among the pidgeons....

you always use clear saftety glasses under a welding helmet because of many reasons but this got me the hard way. i got a dose of welding flash while working in a welding shop from reflective bounce. in otherwords someone near me was welding and the welding arch from him welding came in and reflected off my lense then back into my eyes. got me a beauty. it was very painfull...

now,,,if i was wearing uv protecting clear glasses. all i would have got is eye strain. like when someone uses a flash on a camera and you get dots infront of your eyes, the damage is temporary...but alot more severe of course. so it is important that anyone near you should also be wearing then as well. i'm not going to go into welding screens and signs and barriers etc. i'm a realist. but belive me eye strain does still hurt and with it you get a terrible head ache for a few days, but it is better tham getting a flash.

by the way my little brother did this course with me and he built racing wheel chairs.. he has a cheap helmet that he has had for about 6 years. he loves it and has only replaced the battery twice. and chris uses it most days... he also told me that his goes from shade 3 to shade 11 on its change and when the battery goes flat the screen goes to 7 at rest with no power....but once again, it will not flash you. but you will get eye strain if you weld at shade 7. mind you, you will know something is wrong instantly and you will stop welding.

i hope there is some info there you can use.
look up grahame he has some wonderfull insight and help.
glen boulton
P.S. my little bro is a quad, and he is my hero!!

Hi Guys,

Safety glasses under a helmet are a must, a requirement in a lot of shops.
1. They prevent direct line sight uv radiation entry to the eyes.

2. The helmet needs to come up at some time and if theres an accidental arc at that time,one can receive a flash.

3.This varies with different processes, but after the weld is finished and the weld is cooling off ,it can flick off flux or even with mig, a bit of glassy scale.At hundreds of degrees of temperaure, any of that stuff is far too hot for the sensitive eye tissue.

4.Then we tend to while welding ad tacking ,use the Angle grinder.Bingo! the glasses are there ready for use and not forgotten. A trip to to the emergency ward to have a piece of metal dug out of the eye can be prevented easily by wearing your safety glasses as a habit.

5.With some of us its not optional as we already need prescription glasses. I don't think its co incidence that I have not had a flash or eye injury since I had my first pair of prescription specs 17 years back.

Cheers