Thread: buying first mig - have 20 amp fuse but 10 amp plug outlets in shed..

i suppose the true correct answer is very diiferent to what i do.. i would say it would be better to get fully enclosed ones that go on with the strap around the back of your head and are tight on your face like motor cross goggles....

but me
i just wear a flashy sporty type...not for looks but because they hug the profile of your face...so there is less chance for sparks to bounce in and i dont get fog in them. i spend about $12 for a pair and i get them from my local safety shop.....this shop sells safety gear only...i'm sure you get cheeper ones but i personaly found that if they are too cheep they are not comfortable to wear and they are normally brittle, so break easy...most saftey glasses will stop the uv rays in their tracks...and clear is fine

i use both clear and tinted all the time.(not at the same time). but i have been know to spit the dummy in the weld shop yelling out "who pinched my glasses" while wearing two pairs on my head. and no thay haven't let me off yet, blokes still come up to me with 6 or 7 pairs of glasses on their head and ask to borrow mine.

remember this , if they are good and comfy to wear, then it is easy to leave them on your face all day. i think i may have mentioned about comfort before, and i'm sure montie, grahame and dj would all agree with me when i say the more relaxed and comfortable you are ...then the better you get your weld and its easier to do it.

As for the 15 amp verses 10 amp debate....

A welder with a 15 amp plug will only draw the maximum amperage when running flat out...And they do draw more then 15 amps..

Buy the 15 amp welder and down the track upgrade the circuit to 15 amps...Just don't run the welder flat out for extended periods until you get the 15 amp circuit installed..

Buy a 10 amp now and you restrict yourself too much down the track when you find it a bit too small..

Originally Posted by .RC.

As for the 15 amp verses 10 amp debate....

A welder with a 15 amp plug will only draw the maximum amperage when running flat out...And they do draw more then 15 amps..

Buy the 15 amp welder and down the track upgrade the circuit to 15 amps...Just don't run the welder flat out for extended periods until you get the 15 amp circuit installed..

Buy a 10 amp now and you restrict yourself too much down the track when you find it a bit too small..

not rocket science.

On welding helmet,
In 12 years of fabrication work using various methods on various materials with various brand and size welders, all I ever used, entirely my choice too as I had option to be supplied any helmet I wanted, was the old style flip front helmet and change lens as required.

Why?
If I got flashed, it was my fault.
Did a lot of site work too (plant installation and maintenance Australia wide), found these a better option if it was stolen (often, along with screwdrivers, they were always a favourite to walk), dropped etc much cheaper to replace.

Also, had a bad experience with the worst case of flash using one of the early ESAB helmets years ago, that turned me off them straight away.
I was mig welding aluminium, which doesnt help either, but still I didnt like the flash that night all the same.

just my opinion and completely different to everyone elses i suppose

thanks for the info brisbanefitter - i appreciate your opinion. These helmets have proven useful and good for you and like you say - in a work situation too - you have to consider the real likelihood of theft and damage a lot more than you would have to than in the home situation. To be honest I hadnt even considered that point of view before so its been helpful that you have mentioned it.Thats why its good to come here and listen to other people's stories about what has - and hasnt worked for them. Thanks for enlightening me

Originally Posted by .RC.

As for the 15 amp verses 10 amp debate....

A welder with a 15 amp plug will only draw the maximum amperage when running flat out...And they do draw more then 15 amps..

Buy the 15 amp welder and down the track upgrade the circuit to 15 amps...Just don't run the welder flat out for extended periods until you get the 15 amp circuit installed..

Buy a 10 amp now and you restrict yourself too much down the track when you find it a bit too small..

Great advice RC.
So what is the maximum setting Woodmama is allowed to use on her welder and exactly how long can she run it before she burns her shed/house down. C'mon it's not rocket science. Also you may want to post your phone number here so that anyone else that reads your advice can ring you to get the settings appropriate for their 15 amp welder when running it from a 10 amp GPO.

I agree that she should get a 15 amp welder, but I also think she should get a 15 amp circuit put in her shed before hand.

i know a lot of people run their 15 amp welders off a 10 amp plug with modifications ranging from cutting down the plug on the machine to making an adapter extension cord to connect the 2,(including a lot of the welder shop people i have spoken to) and perhaps for most of them - it has worked okay - and the term - 'just dont run it flat out' is often used. But no-one can say what that really means - and they sure won't commit to making a statement to you doing that and saying things will be safe.
So for me, it is relatively clear now what to do - I was primarily curious as to the electronics involved behind it and how people were managing to run 15 amp machines off of 10 amp plugs as it seemed commonplace for them to make these modifications - but were they safe??. I want to play it as safe as possible so yep definitely - if I do the 15 amp welder - I will be installing a 15 amp dedicated outlet into the shed.

One last question - how do 10 or 15 amp welders run off of extension cords for e.g. outside work - does this affect their performance in any way?

Thanks for all the info

Originally Posted by woodmama

One last question - how do 10 or 15 amp welders run off of extension cords for e.g. outside work - does this affect their performance in any way?

It's fine to run them off an extension lead. Just use a heavy duty lead, that matches your welder i.e. 10 amp for 10 amp welder or 15 amp for a 10 or 15 amp welder. It is not advisable to connect multiple leads together.

Originally Posted by Vernonv

Great advice RC.

Thanks, I am here to help with common sense advice...The unfortunate things is in today's cotton wool Australian society common sense has gone out the window and society is suffering because of it..

One thing to bare in mind when buying is the duty cycle....A 10 amp machine is more then likely going to have a worse duty cycle then a 15 amp machine..

Originally Posted by Vernonv

It is not advisable to connect multiple leads together.

Meh I've always found that is really makes no difference connecting multiple leads together vs buying one long one in practice as long the leads are all rated the same and suitable for the application. The problem comes when you run too long (insanely) and/or use thin cheap cords that are not rated for what you are running.

Originally Posted by .RC.

Thanks, I am here to help with common sense advice...The unfortunate things is in today's cotton wool Australian society common sense has gone out the window and society is suffering because of it..

Sorry but I fail to see the common sense in your suggestion.

Common sense tell me that if you need to do something DODGY to get your welder to work, then you shouldn't be doing it.

Originally Posted by montiee

Meh I've always found that is really makes no difference connecting multiple leads together vs buying one long one in practice as long the leads are all rated the same and suitable for the application. The problem comes when you run too long (insanely) and/or use thin cheap cords that are not rated for what you are running.

Yep generally you are ok with multiple leads, but with welders running close to a circuits capacity I like to take a little more care (especially when advising others what to do).

Here is my reasoning:
1. Each additional connection point introduces the possibility of additional bad/corroded connections. Running high amps through bad connections can lead to overheating and can cause excessive voltage drop (see 2 below).

2. Most commercially available leads are limited in length (i.e. you can't easily get hold of lead 100's of metres in length). The longer a lead and the greater the amps pumped through it, the higher the voltage drop. So if you have multiple long leads connected together and are pumping through high amps, the overall voltage drop increases and can therefore increased chance of the lower operating voltage damaging the welder.

Originally Posted by Vernonv

Sorry but I fail to see the common sense in your suggestion.

Common sense tell me that if you need to do something DODGY to get your welder to work, then you shouldn't be doing it.

What is dodgy about it???? I have temporarily run a 10hp phase converter off a 15 amp supply no problem using common sense..

Originally Posted by .RC.

What is dodgy about it????

Because it was not designed to operated in the manner in which you are operating it. The wiring rules were designed to allow electrical installations to function safely. Operating outside these "rules", especially without understanding why the rules exits, is dangerous. So the only way to operate a 15 amp welder off a 10 amp gpo is to file down the pin, replace the plug, or use a "converting" lead - all of these are dodgy and compromise safety.

Originally Posted by .RC.

I have temporarily run a 10hp phase converter off a 15 amp supply no problem using common sense..

Ok, so you were lucky. But telling someone else, who you have never met, to do something that is obviously outside the recognised standard, is irresponsible.

Honestly, I'm all for DIY electrical, but on the proviso that people understand what they are doing, understand the dangers and how to minimise/eliminate them, and that they do it safely and up to (or above) a recognised standard.

BTW I currently run a phase converter supplying 11hp, but it's hooked up to 2 x 20 amp split phase circuits.