Thread: Chinese TIG, Help please

I have sent around 4 different questions to the seller.
I only received this today. This was the last question I asked.
The rest has been ignored.
Very helpful seller Auctionlords. Nice!


Dear customer,

The plug is made to fit Australian standard. So it should fit just fine.
This is the first time we ever had a complaint regarding that matter.



> Hi,
>
> I tried to plug in to the power but the power outlet in this house will not
> fit.
>> Does this mean I cant use this here? Not enough power supply?

Yoshi,

Let me get this right ? .

Your electrical expertise does n't run to identifying a common 15 amp electrical plug but you are quite happy to open up the sealed electrical connection of your hot water service and connect it to your welder.

My attitude to this may seem harsh to you, but in Queensland there are laws against this type of action by unlicensed people. If you doubt, please ring your local Ergon inspector and he can explain this to you. I would not wish to see you or indeed anybody injured because an unsafe thing was done with electricity.

The 15 amp plug (shown in your photos)has a much broader earth pin than that of ordinary 10 amp plugs as used commonly in households. Note that it is a moulded pin and cable fitted. It requires a similar rated GPO plug to match the pin. Large plug air con units and some older washing machines often required this outlet connection.

Its not the responsibility of the seller to ensure that you had the correct outlet. If you buy a big 4wd you can,t blame the manufacture because it won't fit in your garage.

Moving along to the the plasma unit , plsma cutting units require a decent filter of the correct micron size air filter to remove and water oil or rust particles from the compressed air stream. These particles are what blast the crap out of the tiny aperture in the nozzle ,as they are shoot through the hole at ultraspeed. If you dont have the correct filtron you can conceivably run 2 tips one after the other- been there -done that.


Also the plasma will require a minimum continuous air pressure well over 100 PSI which I doubt the supercheap model can maintain.

I do agree with you, that the the manual information could have been a lot better.

This is why I have have attempted over the last few years to educate potential buyers on this forum,before they take the plunge.

Surely, it must be better to get a warranty, after sales services, availability of spares and access to someone who can repair the unit when something goes amiss and pay a few dollars more. Sometimes it is a bit hard to get the point across ,but your situation is a good example of what I have tried to warn people against.

Also with warranty, I saw in the pics what appears to be the new machine with the covers off. The warranty evaporates the moment the retailer suspects there's any unauthorised intrusion inside the machine case .In not a good idea to do this -least ways until its out of warranty.

I am aware of a case in Queensland where the customer returned the a water blaster machine to the retailer complaining it had no power.The customer had also removed the moulded plug and fitted a 15 amp.The retailer refered it straight to small claims arbitration and invited the electrical workers registration board to attend as well.

You need to be careful here as this could bite you in more ways than one.


Grahame

Grahame - Its fitted with a 20A plug (all pins are larger) not a 15A one. Better to have a tinker off the right circuit than going out and grinding down the pins or fitting a new plug so it fits in your 10A GPO.

I wouldn't feel confident buying one of these machines purely on the warranty issue, even if they do offer warranty they only give you parts after you either diagnose the problem or get someone else to. Even then you have to send everything back. TokenTools look to be the only decent bunch, their machines are a fair bit different though.

Thanks for that
It puts the problem in a different light .

I did a search and found a good link with a diagram to help us who need to know a bit more about the plugs (me)

http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Refere...ugVariants.htm

Thats a lot for the machine to draw if its a an inverter job.

I had no idea there was a 20amp in the familiar 3 pin configuration.
It would say that its pretty much an industrial thing if it needs to pull that much

Your a correct about Token Tools over a few years I have had a look at most of the mobs flogging welders particularly inverters and this guys gets the ticks in all the boxes. This fella is an electrician and has done his homework.

Grahame

Your electrical expertise does n't run to identifying a common 15 amp electrical plug but you are quite happy to open up the sealed electrical connection of your hot water service and connect it to your welder.

I’ve been here for over a decade but first time to see this big plug.

My attitude to this may seem harsh to you, but in Queensland there are laws against this type of action by unlicensed people. If you doubt, please ring your local Ergon inspector and he can explain this to you. I would not wish to see you or indeed anybody injured because an unsafe thing was done with electricity.

Any information is welcome. I will stop doing this right away. (sorry I’m lying.)

Also the plasma will require a minimum continuous air pressure well over 100 PSI which I doubt the supercheap model can maintain.

I’m looking at the suprecheap catalog now and saying “77L/min free air”
If I save some air in the tank, I may get some more L/min at the beginning I hope.
My cutting thickness is up to 3mm. I will go and check the compressor spec next.

Also with warranty, I saw in the pics what appears to be the new machine with the covers off. The warranty evaporates the moment the retailer suspects there's any unauthorised intrusion inside the machine case .In not a good idea to do this -least ways until its out of warranty.

I think its ok to open the cover because warranty requires sending the faulty part to them.

Surely, it must be better to get a warranty, after sales services, availability of spares and access to someone who can repair the unit when something goes amiss and pay a few dollars more. Sometimes it is a bit hard to get the point across ,but your situation is a good example of what I have tried to warn people against.

Yap, I know Chinese products because I’m selling them! Not welders though.
Around 10% of the product is directive. It is high risk-high return business but
can’t live without made in China.

I desperately needed Chinese Tig info before I buy this but couldn’t find much.
So I thought why not do it myself and disclose good and sh#t.
Sorry my English quality is bad.

Yes, all pins are big. I soldered cables to the pins.

I will report if I totally waste one grand or not.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Yoshi,

Your electrical expertise doesn't run to identifying a common 15 amp electrical plug but you are quite happy to open up the sealed electrical connection of your hot water service and connect it to your welder.

My attitude to this may seem harsh to you, but in Queensland there are laws against this type of action by unlicensed people. If you doubt, please ring your local Ergon inspector and he can explain this to you. I would not wish to see you or indeed anybody injured because an unsafe thing was done with electricity.

Grahame,
my electrical expertise is possibly less extensive than yours, but I seem to recall that nearly electrical hot water units are designated to run off-peak and there's some form of penality tarriff if they draw current at other times.

If Yoshi is lucky he'll just run up a big power bill
he might vene be lucky enough to that his water system includes plastic pipes,
If he's not so lucky he might merely burn his house down rather than zap someone

Oh, I disconnect the hot water power and connect to the controversial welder every time.
Of course I turn of the breaker while doing this.

“Hey Yoshi, I was freezing in the shower because its breaker was down.
What’s going on?” Oops

Originally Posted by Yoshimura

Oh, I disconnect the hot water power and connect to the controversial welder every time.
Of course I turn of the breaker while doing this.

“Hey Yoshi, I was freezing in the shower because its breaker was down.
What’s going on?” Oops

I think you need to prioritize a bit.
Frankly your welder costs over $1000 so spend 1/4 of that to get a dedicated plug where you want it.

Better than taking the thing out next to your hot water heater every time you want to use it.
1. It's a big inconvenience connecting and disconnecting.
2. It's not safe with your dodgy wiring.
3. You don't even want to run the TIG outside anyway. The shielding gas gets disturbed by a decent breeze screwing up your welds.

Frankly it's better than wasting money on a compressor to run the plasma. How much cutting are you planning on doing anyway? If it's only for mini-bikes there's not much point. You can cut them with regular power tools.

I'd be more concerned about getting the TIG working since that's your long term goal. There's considerable cost to getting set up.You want argon and a regulator. A suitable safe work area.

Originally Posted by Yoshimura

“Hey Yoshi, I was freezing in the shower because its breaker was down.
What’s going on?”

is not what worries me

What does worry me is you feeding juice into the water pipes and zapping one of your neighbours

get a dedicated plug where you want it.

Yes, I think so.

I went to a local welding supply shop today.
Found that argon EX size bottle rental for a year is $100 including full gas.
Then refill is $120. Sounds not so bad

They told me that plasma cutting needs 170L/min air regardless of work piece thickness.
I guess have to forget about the cheap compressor.

I want to use the plasma to cut under 1mm stainless steal in irregular shape for making exhaust pipes.
Then I also asked about compressed air bottle rental but a size G is the only choice. It’s too big for me.
I may try plasma after aluminum welding.

Do you guys use large compressor or bottled air for cutting?

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I did a search and found a good link with a diagram to help us who need to know a bit more about the plugs (me)

http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Refere...ugVariants.htm
Grahame

Hi Grahame, you can add to that diagram two more domestic type power points,
25amp and 32 amps.
The good think about 32 amp power points is that they can fit any size from 32 down take away the round earth plug ( I have yet to see one).

As an indication. the wiring for a 15 amp powerpoint has to be 2.5 mm2 / for a 20 and 25 4mm2 and for 32 6mm2. Each of this powerpoint have to have their own circuitbraker of the same capacity and go through a safety switch as well. If the run of wire from the board to the powerpoint is longer than 30 meters you have to go one size wire up.
The whole point of all this different plugs is to avoid a heavy load to be plugged into a circuit that can not supply that load.

I had an electrician fitting a 32 amp powerpoint at the powerboard complete with circuit braker and own separate safety switch all for $132 + GST.
I made myself an extension lead with 25m of flexible orange 6mm2, 2 core+ earth wire. I asked the supplier for an empty wooden wire drum. I fitted a 32 amp powerpoint and a gang of 4, 10 amp powerpoints to the side of the drum, wired it all up to the orange cable and fitted a 32 amp plug to the other end. Got my back door neighbour who is a licensed electrician to check all and after his blessing with holy water, I now have 32 amp powerpoint and extension lead to weld for very little money compared to the cost of industrial type 32 amp single fase powerpoints and plugs, notto mention the cost of hard wiring the shed in 6 mm2. I will eventualy do it, but this was a quick fix and is all legal.

I am only commenting on this as an alternative to the outrageous idea of soldering cables to a flat pin plug and hooking it up to the hot water system. I wonder if this is how it is done in Japan?

Originally Posted by Yoshimura

Do you guys use large compressor or bottled air for cutting?

I don't own a plasma but a couple of workshops I've been to run compressors for them. Because they don't move the plasma around much, it's not a big hassle to keep a compressor next to the plasma.

Bottle is a bit more portable.

Edster,
The Bottle may be more portable? Are we talking about an E size bottle or a G size Bottle.
A G size bottle is a real pain to move It needs a dedicated trolley to move it and hold it upright. Then you must pay bottle rental and transport it to and from your gas dealer.
An E size is lighter and more portable but it is less than 1/3 the capacityog a G. And the above still applies.
I have a 1st or 2nd generation CIG plasma that runs off a the biggest single phase compressor that I could buy at the time.
I bought both over fifteen years ago both Plasma and compressor are still giving good service.
The compressor does not like to operate on an extension lead. The prssure controlled motor starter eventually burns out. theis has happened twice in 15 years.
The plasma has to have perfectly dry air. Think about a very good water trap or two.
I was browsing and I found some useful welding training manuals.
This one is a monster 19 MB. Its the US military welding manual.
Its at
http://www.instructables.com/id/Basi...tiontextbooks/

There is some good data here also
Regards Whitworth