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  1. #1
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    Default Chinese Tig Welder review - 5 years on

    My how the time flies….I was poking around on here the other day and realised it has been 5 years since I bought my humble Chinese welder so I thought I would do an update. When I first bought the welder I did a review of the various Chinese TIGs that were around at that time – that thread can be found here:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/99893-...er-comparison/

    I ended up buying a Token Tools INV200 welder that they no longer sell – I think it has been superseded by some other welders in their range. I don’t have a lot to report back on to be honest, basically the welder works as well now as it did when I first bought it. The only thing that has broken in that time which is worth mentioning is the plastic sleeve that goes around the cord for the TIG torch. That has cracked right through in several places as the plastic sheath is quite brittle now.

    I have done a lot of work with this welder. It has been used to make a pipe bender, make a motorcycle frame from scratch, hard tail a custom triumph frame, build a 2 meter long spit roaster, build several full home brew kits and its currently half way through doing a heap of rust repair on an FJ holden (massive job). A commercial welder who is a friend of mine even borrowed it for a week when his kempii died. It did a lot of work that week too – basically ran all day.

    I have found in that time that many of the features which appealed to me are not used very often. This is more a reflection of my welding habits than the machine. For instance I never use the pulse, never use a foot pedal and only very rarely use AC welding. I never bought a pedal as most of my welding is done crawling around a bike or a car and foot pedals aren’t practical when doing this…however there have been occasions when one would have been useful so I think I will get one eventually.

    All in all though, I am extremely happy with this machine. Its one of the most used and most useful tools in my garage. I love its flexibility – it can (and has) gone from welding rusty .8mm sheet metal one minute to welding up 12mm plate the next. I have used it on aluminium, cast iron, copper, brass, stainless and mild steel (although 95% of its work is done on stainless or mild steel). I have had absolutely no problems regularly welding as low as 30amps, and right up to the full 200amps. The arc is stable and strikes instantly at both ends of the power spectrum. In the 5 years I have had it - I have never tripped its duty cycle.

    Would love to hear from other token welder owners out there on how their machines are performing - particularly those that have done a lot of alloy work with one, as this is one aspect of my machine that has never really been put through its paces.

    Brendan

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  3. #2
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    Hi 19brendan81,

    That,s an excellent review and will be very helpful for those folk who may be considering a purchase of a welder now or in the future. Your point about features is interesting to me.
    In Australia I think we are heavily influenced as a DIY group of people by what the opinions of so the Hobby/ Industry block decree what is the standard for USA.

    The foot pedal thing is but one facet of the phenomenon that I am talking about. I believe because of the internet, that opinions of some posters tend to be taken as written in stone and when one "expert" writes that a foot pedal is a good thing and life as we know it, can't be lived with out one that written in stone. The same is is then repeated parrot fashion by other internet users who may not have a clue. Not many will disagree for fear of not wanting to be seen out of step with the mainstream opinion.

    Another example is the use of 6010 and 6011 electrodes. The poor beggars use them for general purposes way out their range of application, believing the cellulose will peep penetrate burn through paint and gunge with out loss of strength. Don't get me wrong.For their correct and intended use - nothing better. Why? because everyone says so.

    Can I add to Brendan's request. Add to the review with your opinion of your machine. As Brendan did,it will be terrific if you add your thoughts of the
    performance ,longevity, what you have constructed ,the suitability for purpose and even about the features . Have you fully utilized all the bells and whistles on the machine?

    Looking forward to a big response
    Grahame

  4. #3
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    Great review Brendan,

    I have to admit, i also followed the advice and got a pedal. For some things it's useful. I did modify it and converted it into a foot switch option . I found that pushing the button on the torch I had was introducing movement I did not want. Now I have a smaller torch it's really not an issue and use either.

    Alan

  5. #4
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    Thanks Brendan, great to hear. It was actually your initial thread on this all those years ago that made me have a second look at tokentools.
    Most people who read this forum regularly will know that I'm also happy with my tokentools machine (the first - now updated Alusync). Unlike you, I would do at least 70% of my welding on this machine on aluminium and it performs just fine. The other welding would be 15% stick and 15% tig MS or SS. I regularly weld 1.2mm aluminium up to 10mm. My machine is one of those dreaded 4in1 machines that everyone says are a breakdown waiting to happen. I think I've owned it for over 4 years now and I've only had two issues:
    1. I blew a relay when switching modes from tig to plasma with the current on (either the trigger got bumped or stuck - I can't remember)
    2. Had a bit of erratic arc starting once due to some debris near the HF contacts
    In both cases, I sent a message to Pete from tokentools and my issue was sorted within hours.
    I would use my Alusync every week - I've lost count of the number of G size argon bottles I've put through it.
    I also have a tokentools MIG machine that I use for gal framing etc. I don't use it near as much and am not as practiced at it either, but I think the machine works just fine. I've had that for a year or so now.
    Cheers
    - Mick

  6. #5
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    Good to hear yours is going well Mick - I remember when you boght it. My mate also has a 4 in 1 machine that has been going well for a few years now...I cant remember which brand it is though. He did have a much cheaper one first that died within the first month or so, lucky he was able to get a full refund. Another mate of mine bought one of those really cheap ones ($300 or so DC, pulse, HF start, plasma cutter) and he was incredibly lucky..he basically didnt use it for almost a full year and about a week before the warranty ran out he started using it and id died straight away. I think its important with any of this chinese gear to really use it alot during the warranty period...if they are going to go pop chances are they will do it quickly.

    What sort of aluminium stuff do you do Mick? Building boats or bikes etc?

    I think Grahams point about features is spot on. I cant remember how I came to the opinion that pulse was an important feature, but it would have been something I read online. The reality is though, that as mentioned I never ever use the pulse function. Now the pulse feature seems to come with most of the welders so its likely anyone buying a welder in the future will end up with it - but things like AC and footpedals dont come standard and add considerable cost to the purchase price of your welder and in my experience they havent been necessary. So if you are considering purchasing something in the future really think about what you are doing. For general handyman stuff, hot rodding and steel (inc stainless) construcion a plain vanilla tig machine will do fine.

    P.S one feature I didnt discuss in my original post is the HF start....this is an excellent feature! I have used welders which dont have it and I have always appreciated returning to mine which does. Sometimes I am faced with a job where the two parts are tenusously balancing incontact with each other and the HF start allows me to tack them in place before they fall/move. These sorts of jobs cant be held in a vice or with clamps etc. This would be impossible with a scratch start welder.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19brendan81 View Post
    Sometimes I am faced with a job where the two parts are tenusously balancing incontact with each other and the HF start allows me to tack them in place before they fall/move.
    Like the frame I was tacking on the weekend that fell on my head right as I lit up.

    You guys without pedals - do you set up downslope manually, does your machine do it automatically or how else do you prevent craters?

    Do you use switches in standard, 2T, 4T or which mode?

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19brendan81 View Post
    What sort of aluminium stuff do you do Mick? Building boats or bikes etc?
    Like you said - the welder gets used for everything. Lots of boat related stuff, custom brackets, storage units and the like. Net frames and various sampling equipment, water tanks, repairs. Rust is a real issue where I live so I go for aluminium where ever I can.... I made up 60 shelving brackets for the shed the other day from aluminium angle. Worked out at about $8 each - which was pretty good compared to the steel equivalent considering they won't need to be painted. Even stuff like enclosures for the kids pets... light and easy to move, maintenance free... etc. I really like my local aluminium supplier. I'd like to do a bike but don't have access to tempering facilities. I like to do a neat job, but none of my work particularly requires it.

    I use the TIG for critical jobs on steel where I don't want to take any chances - structural boat trailer repairs, brackets for stairs in the shed, etc.
    I've really wanted to use the plasma more, but I have less need for it, so when I do have a use, it's a hassle to hook up air, switch over leads, etc. so I tend to just use the jigsaw/dropsaw (aluminium again) or my horiz bandsaw which is another great tool. I use the MIG almost exclusively on gal framing, but one day I'll try it on ally.

    Quote Originally Posted by 19brendan81 View Post
    The reality is though, that as mentioned I never ever use the pulse function.
    Ditto... I rarely use it. I think it would be a neat thing when learning. Set the freq to 1Hz and uses the pulses to time dabs. Unfortunately I only cottoned onto that one late. I really hate the welds you see where the background current is too low, so each 'dime' is almost a standalone tack - complete waste of time in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by 19brendan81 View Post
    HF start....this is an excellent feature!
    Definitely. I've been watching the weldingtipsandtricks videos lately where he's demonstrating scratch start TIG, fine if you've got no option but give me HF any day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    You guys without pedals - do you set up downslope manually, does your machine do it automatically or how else do you prevent craters?
    Do you use switches in standard, 2T, 4T or which mode?
    I'd use my foot pedal about 50% of the time and it is definitely my preference, but as Brendan says sometimes it's just impractical. The foot pedal means you can hold your torch anyway you like and you can be rock steady because you don't need to worry about the switch. I rather use the torch switch if there's a lot of tacking to do.

    When I'm using the torch switch I set my downslope to 0.5 or maybe 1 second. If you set it for too long you can get in trouble as sometimes it's hard to plan ahead more than a couple of seconds, particularly with aluminium and you'll be adding filler like crazy trying to prevent a burn through. I tend not to use upslope. I hate 4T mode - but I guess it's what you're used to. I assume it would help with fatigue/steadiness. For cratering I add filler just at the right time when tapering off the amps. The famous Jody does little spirals with the arc whilst tapering, but I don't that makes much difference - the key is to not have a great big blob of molten metal solidifying (and contracting) all at once. Tapering off with footpedal or downslope is the go.

    Cheers

    - Mick

  9. #8
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    I use pulse. Not because I need to, but because I like messing around with things. 1pps is good for tube butts, where the square edge meets a radius corner. It's easy to fill gaps without blowing holes. High pps is good for getting into corners of fillets if you can stand the noise.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I use pulse. Not because I need to, but because I like messing around with things. 1pps is good for tube butts, where the square edge meets a radius corner. It's easy to fill gaps without blowing holes. High pps is good for getting into corners of fillets if you can stand the noise.
    It's obviously got it's uses... I was referring to the exaggerated stack of dimes thing when I said a waste of time...
    I also used to like messing around with things... now I'm just lazy
    Regarding high pps... are you referring to high frequency AC (more focussed arc), or actual pulsing?
    Actually, you've jogged my memory, I remember at tafe running some really narrow little fillets on stainless using rapid pulsing (I think it was like 300pps). I find it hard to understand why it worked better than just a lower average current, but it did seem to.
    Cheers
    - Mick

  11. #10
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    High pulse rate DC focuses the arc too. I only really use two settings - 1pps for the open gap tube butts and 150pps for fillets. I might try higher rates if I can handle the squealing but those are the only two I've really experimented with.

    I find the 1pps is good for thin stuff because you can see the arc keyhole away the butt edge on the high pulse and then you have time to recover with both filler and a cooler arc without it blowing a huge hole. Without pulse you have less time and have to jam the filler in there much more critically.

    The 150pps makes a very nice little fillet. Supposedly although you'd think it would just balance out to pretty much constant current the high pulse rates do have a noticeable effect. I.e. there is a difference between 150pps and 250pps and 500pps. I do find 150pps noticeable, more direct than non-pulsing.

    Jody reckons the high rates are also good for welding close to an edge, to prevent the arc wandering off to the edge itself.

    Really, once I set up a project and I'm ready to weld I tend to set the pulser parameters and then just switch between different pulse rates depending on the next weld, so I'm just changing 1 -> 150.

  12. #11
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    "When I'm using the torch switch I set my downslope to 0.5 or maybe 1 second. If you set it for too long you can get in trouble as sometimes it's hard to plan ahead more than a couple of seconds, particularly with aluminium and you'll be adding filler like crazy trying to prevent a burn through. I tend not to use upslope. I hate 4T mode - but I guess it's what you're used to. I assume it would help with fatigue/steadiness. For cratering I add filler just at the right time when tapering off the amps. The famous Jody does little spirals with the arc whilst tapering, but I don't that makes much difference - the key is to not have a great big blob of molten metal solidifying (and contracting) all at once. Tapering off with footpedal or downslope is the go."

    x2 on all of this. Its basically what I do.

    Recently whilst welding panels into the FJ I have noticed occasions where a pedal would have been helpful - when working with sheet with varying degrees of rustiness, thickness and fit. I found I was going back and forth to the welder every 2 mins adjusting amps up and down all the time. A pedal would have saved a lot of farting around.

  13. #12
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    Since we're discussing pulse, today I did a 3m lap joint.

    2.4mm 2% lanthanated electrode
    60% peak time
    40% background amps
    200pps
    150A peak amps
    7Lpm argon

    These parameters average out to 114A

    50mm x 50mm x 2.5mm (?) SHS frame
    2.1mm (or maybe 2.0mm) checker plate

    Tacked with 150A no pulse every raised checker thing, so about every inch. Lots of tacks, maybe 100.

    5 tricky bits to go around but mostly just plain straight line lapping.

    Firstly, the 150A was good for tacking but it was stomp and dab and release within a second or two at most because at that heat the top plate would quickly melt away. So I thought I'd use that as my baseline to set the pulse. I thought maybe the settings I chose were a bit high but with the pedal I could lighten off. As it turned out, I used full pedal all the way.

    Lapping I could just stomp, puddle in 2 seconds at most and take off. Continuous travel, dabbing 2-3 times a second, fast travel speed. The arc was hot enough to eat away the top plate so I directed it mostly down at the SHS, about 10 degrees off vertical and the usual 70 degrees push angle. Dabbing was at the top edge of the top plate or else it would just keyhole away if I dabbed on the bottom of the puddle on the SHS. Dabbing at the top edge it would fill the keyholes as they formed so you had the puddle running along the SHS, the top plate keyholing and instantly welding down with each dab.

    It worked really well. One hidden advantage of pulse at these high rates is that the annoying buzz is an indication of arc length as well. So with everything going on if you forget about the arc length the sound soon reminds you. If you go too close, it goes quiet, if you increase too long it starts roaring. So with everything going on it's a little aural reminder.

    Anyway, I quite liked 200pps. I might push it higher next time to see how it goes. 250pps maybe.

    I could easily have gone no pulse and normally would, but wanted to try a different orientation with pulse. Normally I use it (in completely different ways) for fillets and butts only.

    I still used 1pps today for open gap butts, and it's amazing for that, for gap filling. As it pulses high, jam as much filler in as you can. As it pulses low, move the electrode forward. I filled a couple of 2mm gaps, maybe 3mm, on 1.6mm SHS without blowing holes.

  14. #13
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    Hi Legion

    Always confused by this, what is the method to calculate the average amps with a pulse unit ?

    Many thanks
    Alan

  15. #14
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    On my machine it takes:

    peak time as a percentage of total time
    background amps as a percentage of main (peak) amps
    pulse frequency

    So it's:

    peak time percentage * main amps + background time percentage * background percentage * main amps

    So from yesterday:

    60/100 * 150 + 40/100 * 40/100 * 150 = 114A

    The pulse frequency has an effect too, but not on average amps. More on the feel while welding and what you use it for.

    Like Jody says I view it as two ranges - very slow (I use 1pps for gap filling but it would also be good for timing and building muscle memory, or for bump welding) or the very fast rates (and then I have only really messed with 150pps or yesterday even more).

    I'm curious how the medium ranges perform too, 33 -> 100pps. I might try those one day too.

    On Miller's website there are a couple of articles about it. This is a good one:

    Miller - Refrigerator Door Fabricator Uses Pulsed TIG to Double Production Without Adding Staff or Equipment

  16. #15
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    Thank you for that

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