Thread: Chinese tigs

No worries mate
Every one us has off days
Grahame

Maybe in future I will leave the grog alone before posting, that way I will be fully aware of my comments.

I am a firm believer that grog actually brings out the best in some people. I wish I was one of them.

Hey caveman how bout a followup?, I'm considering one of these chinese
welders as well, any good?

The fella that runs Tokentools used to have a good web site where he displayed images of his workshop and so on. He seemed to be a pretty decent person. But that's not to say that the welders are any good. I don't know.

I'm sure Chinese circuits boards would be OK if replacements are readily available.

Hi Men

These bloke has been around for 4 or five years and also has/ or had a small metalwork orientated website.

He seems to be a fair dinkum operator and probably would have any problems with giving your some names of happy customer.It would not hurt to ask.At least you can ask some of the difficult questions.
The rest of the site stacks up well in my opinion.

Back to work for me,wash clean spray etc.
Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Hi Men

These bloke has been around for 4 or five years and also has/ or had a small metalwork orientated website.

He seems to be a fair dinkum operator and probably would have any problems with giving your some names of happy customer.It would not hurt to ask.At least you can ask some of the difficult questions.
The rest of the site stacks up well in my opinion.

Back to work for me,wash clean spray etc.
Grahame

Whilst I have not bought anything from them I have spoken on the phone to them about water cooled Tig torches and Foot Amptrollers.
I found them knowledgeable and helpful.
I was their advice and helpfulness that lost them a sale as he gave me some advice on where to get a fitting to adapt one of my existing foot trollers .
They certainly did not come across as fly by nighters .
How good are the Chinese Welders?? Dont know . But my contact with them was positive.

Gday
I'm sorry i havent followed up but i havent had a chance to put the unit through its paces the only thing ive done is a few stick welds no tig yet, but as soon as i do i will let you know
thanks caveman

I bought one of these a few weeks ago, very happy with is so far. welded stainless and aluminium, does a great job.

Originally Posted by captain_caveman

Gday bob
I bought a chinese tig today finally an ac/dc machine for just over a K and i pick it up soon i hope it works like anything chinese its a worry but its got a years local warranty i will post my thoughts soon as i've had a chance to use ithttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/AC-DC-IGBT-TI...QQcmdZViewItem

Gday
I've finally had a chance to use the unit and performed a few aluminium welds and a bit of stainless and im happy with the quality of the welds as good as the machines i use at tafe for example a kempi transformer machine and the cig inverter ac/dc for the money i'm happy i just hope the happiness lasts.
thanks caveman

Hello All, I thought i would chime in and let you know that our WeldSmart range of inverter tig ac/dc welders all use copper windings in the transformers. Many companies i have noticed are trying to switch to Aluminium to save a few bucks. Since the inception of inverters it has reduced the transformer sizes tremendously so there should be no excuse not to use Copper.... but some still do. Anhow just thought I would give my 2 cents

Hi Guy's, my first post here, but I was reading this thread and decided to join up and tell you about my Tig....
I was very dubious about "small" tig welders and had a real good look around at the various brands.
I previously had a Miller worth big bucks and thought going down the economy track was going to be a disapointment.
I ended up with a TIG welder which was thier top of the line model from Token tools and also brought the Water cooling unit so My hand doesn't get to hot !! hahaha
well to my suprise it is a keeper, it welds every bit as good as my previous miller and its light enough to take to the job rather than the other way round.

Now after my search, I found a couple of things...... the guy at Wyong is actually the guy that designed the welders he sells.... he is an engineer more than a welder apparently, and went to a lot of trouble to make sure the Diode group was just right and no corners cut........ like some of the others on Ebay with dodgy tranys etc etc....

It really is a great welder and I highly recomend those ones anyway.......by the way, I am no way tied to him or his bussiness, but just recon a good product should get a good review.....

Harb

PS I also have one of his Plasma cutters which is a treat too !!!!

Originally Posted by Harb

Hi Guy's, my first post here, but I was reading this thread and decided to join up and tell you about my Tig....
I was very dubious about "small" tig welders and had a real good look around at the various brands.
I previously had a Miller worth big bucks and thought going down the economy track was going to be a disapointment.
I ended up with a TIG welder which was thier top of the line model from Token tools and also brought the Water cooling unit so My hand doesn't get to hot !! hahaha
well to my suprise it is a keeper, it welds every bit as good as my previous miller and its light enough to take to the job rather than the other way round.

Now after my search, I found a couple of things...... the guy at Wyong is actually the guy that designed the welders he sells.... he is an engineer more than a welder apparently, and went to a lot of trouble to make sure the Diode group was just right and no corners cut........ like some of the others on Ebay with dodgy tranys etc etc....

It really is a great welder and I highly recomend those ones anyway.......by the way, I am no way tied to him or his bussiness, but just recon a good product should get a good review.....

Harb

PS I also have one of his Plasma cutters which is a treat too !!!!

Welcome Harb, and thanks for the info.

Hi Chaps,

Firstly I would like to introduce myself, my name is Pete and I am the founding Director of Tokentools Pty Ltd. I was made aware of this post via a conversation with a customer today. There are many points I would like to address in regards to the posts and I will attempt to get them into the best order as per the posts as possible. I have also had a few beers so please excuse any typos.

In regards to the transformer windings, being either aluminium or copper, this conversation really belongs back in the days of traditional transformer machines. The transformer in a modern inverter is tiny and extremely efficient but they do use copper windings.

The traditional transformer steps down your incoming AC supply at mains frequency which is 50 herz. As this is a low frequency there is a large amount of magnetic flux and the transformer core and windings are designed around the flux to optimise transformer efficiency. For this reason they are large and heavy. Aluminium was introduced as a way to decrease the manufacturing cost as it was cheaper than copper. From the perspective of the user it makes no difference, they both do the job well when designed correctly. A transformer will only burn out if providing too much current without the ability to dissipate it's magnetically generated heat in an unsupervised environment...i.e no thermal protection. Inverter machines have current limiting circuits and thermal protection so an inverter tranny should never burn out.

Inverter machines, be it IGBT or MOSFET, firstly rectify the incoming AC supply into DC. This DC which is now around 320 Volts is fed into a high frequency inverter, a fancy name for something that uses transistors to create AC again. The AC is then stepped down through a transformer and rectified into DC via fast reaction diodes. The rectified DC is then fed through a choke (inductor) to filter out any HF ripple. There is more that occurs after this point but I want to concentrate on the specifics of the difference between transformer machines and inverter machines.

Right now you may be thinking what the f%$$????

Yes...it seems really crazy for the inverter to rectify first and then invert but the reason for it is so simple it has created a quantum shift in the manufacture of power supplies the world over from mobile phone chargers, to the power pack on your ADSL router to welding machines and forklift battery chargers. Ever wondered why your ADSL modem power supply can give 2 amps at 12 volts and weigh in at 200 grams??? Yep...it's an inverter.

If you feed a high frequency AC signal into a transformer, the magnetic flux is dramatically reduced, this in turn means the transformer core and windings are redesigned for peak efficiency...... in other words it shrinks dramatically when compared to original weight.

The downside some may think in doing things this way is that you need to invest in electronic control and power electronics. Remember, your inverter is switching 320V DC to create an AC signal and the current at that voltage is only around 25 amps max at the primary side of the transformer on a 200 amp output machine. Luckily in this day and age transistors at this amp range are relatively inexpensive. Control board components are also very inexpensive.

IGBT inverters run around 25 kiloherz
MOSFET inverters run around 100 kiloherz

Now, aluminium or copper you may think? It really makes no difference but they are all copper in any case. They fit in the palm of your hand and if you were to make them out of ally they would be much larger and less efficient.

It is more important to ponder the switching transistors and inverter designs used. Predominantly there are MOSFET and IGBT. Our machines use IGBT with the exception of one product in the range, our 3 in 1 machine.

I won't go into the differences here or criticise products on the market suffice to say that we offer a 3 YEAR WARRANTY on our machines sold via the shop or website, I am yet to see a MOSFET product with this offer.

Our ebay machines are sold for advertising value so we only offer 12 months.

Yes on Ebay there are a lot of dodgy, uncertified, non c-ticked, non standards compliant machines being sold by less than honourable fools that operate from a PO Box and Gargage. We welcome them with open arms because they make us look even better

Ebay is perhaps one of the worlds toughest trading places. I welcome every mainstream bricks and mortar supplier to go there and try to sell their gear and maintain a 100% feedback record. Your ads have to be 100% accurate, your delivery times super fast, your communication skills impeccable and your availability to attend to customers needs typically exceeds 5PM and usually runs into 10PM every day. You honor every warranty claim without question and act on it promptly. We have sold many millions of dollars worth of welding machines through ebay alone and maintain 4.9 out of 5 averages and 100% feedback with the count currently at 1760+

The shame of most mainstream bricks and mortar operators would show in a flash if they ever sold on ebay. Ever had a warranty claim and had to wait 10 weeks for a repair by a mainstreamer? Our policy is 48 hours. Ever ordered online and had to wait a week for dispatch? We ship all orders same day if ordered before 1PM.

Ok, I am probably a bit tanked by now and starting to rave....
You get the idea.

In regards to the comment about us talking ourselves out of a sale, this is absolutely true and I am so glad our customer noticed. I say customer because even though you may not pay us anything, we consider everyone a customer. I in fact remember the conversation about the Transtig machine. We are practical fair dinkum people. When you call us for advice we will give you the best answer on how to achieve a solution to your problem all free and often we will steer you toward putting your wallet back into your pocket. We offer a 30 day no questions asked refund policy on everything we sell. There is no point in our selling you stuff you don't need. If you wanted a MIG to do car panels I would suggest a $200 transformer box on ebay and not our inverters as they will both do the same job but the $200 transformer box will leave $1100 in your pocket. If on the other hand you needed to weld 12mm plate in a portable package I would reccomend our TTMIG205.

Now on the question of made in China. Your computer, most of the electrical stuff within your home, work, car, is all made in China because labour for a competent worker in an electronic assembly plant is around $3.50USD per hour. My kid's XBOX360 and my Apple Imac are also made in China. The XBOX360 has failed twice and not because of the Chinese factory but because of the it's well documented design flaws. Too much heat. To manufacture our machines in Australia would blow their price out of the water. I personally oversee the manufacture of our product during my regular visits to our factory over there. I spent a great deal of time finding a factory capable of meeting my quality standard and it costs me too but the reward is reliability.

China is a progressive and extremely modern country (in the cities anyway), they blow us away on their technological innovations and when you walk into one of their department stores, it leaves Myer for dead, it's usually about 10 times the size. Get onto google maps and do a satellite view of Shanghai, it makes Sydney look like Timbuktoo. I used to think they all get around in their blue pyjamas on push bikes until my first time there. Other than the above it is a hole because it is filthy and polluted and no blue sky due to the pollution...err I mean politically correct fog. When you see the Olympics coverage you will be quite surprised.

My fingers are wearing quicker than hardwood so I better sum up fast. You can reach us on 1300 881 991 if you would like to obtain more technical info on inverters or via email or visit our website at http://www.tokentools.com.au It has had a bucket load of investment recently and has been completely redesigned.

I hope this keeps you chaps entertained for a few hours digesting the info and I will do my best to keep an eye on this thread and lend a hand where I can,

Regards
Pete

P.S I just don't shut up You may contact the welding department at Brookvale TAFE and ask them their opinion of our TIGs, they had a demo for 3 months and loved it so much one of the Teachers made a purchase along with several students.

Hi Pete,
A very big welcome to our little forum.
I have attempted to educate our novice welders about the pitfalls of buying welders based just solely upon price.

I have always emphasized, well known brand,warranty,spare parts and the ability to get the welder repaired if it does fail.

From what I can see you have done all this and more.Well done Peter,may you reap the harvest from your hard work.

You obviously are from industry and have done your homework and have established a clientèle who are willing to promote your products based upon their success with them.

I finished my training as a welding inspector as the new digital stuff started to come on the market.I saw a OTC square welder that was a big as a very large fridge.

All the dials bells and whistles were a bit complex for this thick boilermaker to grasp.

I welcome your input in keeping welding dinosaurs like my self up to date on this ever developing and complex welding technology.

Again Welcome

Grahame