Thread: El cheapo welding rods

Electrode ovens as they are termed are really only intended for low hydrogen type electrodes.
Guys
Only Hydrogen controlled electrodes need hotboxing.
Low hydrogen type electrodes are used in situations where hydrogen build up from H2O (caused by moisture within the flux being separated back into Hydrogen and Oxygen by 6000 degrees of temperature)


The hydrogen builds as tiny bubbles at the weld interfaces and will result in cracks beginning and eventual failure in work subjected to extreme stress loading.

The home diy welder, unless welding pressure vessels or
highly stressed construction cranes or even earthmoving equipment will never ever, be concerned with this problem.
Trust me, guys, the garden gate will not fall down because you did not preheat it and weld with preheated electrodes.

Unless the standard electrodes have been allowed to become damp they will not require heating if stored as previously described.

While looking very professional a hot box will not be necessary for home storage of a couple of boxes of electrodes at best.

I have seen a couple of establishments purporting to be professionals , sporting fancy hotboxes and found that that they were storing cellulose rods -which are 2% moisture content by design.

The old tank welders have told me these cellulose rods were often dipped in a milk bottle full of water and flicked to remove excess as a way of getting the fierce arc required.The electrode oven for cellulose electrodes is contra indicated.

For the majority of us, a bit of plastic drain pipe with caps,will serve our needs and is cost efficient.

have a good Weekend
Grahame

The welds were failing at an astonishing rate. He ceased importing from the manufacturer, however he visited the factory in question when on an unrelated visit to China.

He told me that there was a guy who's only job was to untie old wire coat hangers. He would squat down in the dirt all day with a pair of old pliers. After he starightened them, he would dip them in lime, and then pass on for use to the welders to use as electrodes.

Hi Graham,

The potentially BS story above was after quite a few beverages at a BBQ quite a while ago.

Can you shed any light on what these guys were hoping to accomplish.
Out of curiosity, I might try it myself and see what results.

Hi Fossil,
I guess they were into DIY budget electrodes.

The coat hanger wire for starter would be too soft and not compatible with mild steel at .03% carbon content from memory.

The flux attempt was off by a mile .Mild steel electrode flux usually is made from titania and ilmanite I think -Its the black stuff in mineral sands.
Having seen the pic of the chinese guy using the live bare uncased transformer hooked up to welding leads and using some tinted plastic as a weld shield ,I would not doubt that sort of thing went on.

Also I would second Inverters comment about the Kobe rods.
These guys have put the development into them.The LB52 U's are a unique specialist electrode I have not seen from any another manufacturer.The are called Uranami rods the meaning being to do with their ability to place a tig like ripple finish on the inside face of a root pass.They run very smoothly indeed.No other electrode I have tried to do the same thing with can provide any where near the results that the Kobes provide.

I suspect that the Gemini rods may be a Kobe product too as they seem to bob up where ever they are selling Kobe's.However the is no information printed on the packet to support that theory.

Grahame

Grahame,
If electrodes have not been stored correctly, is the kitchen oven an option to restore them to as new condition? eg 2.5mm 12xp's

Hi Shayne,
Yes
Just put them in some foil and set the oven for a 100 degrees fo about an hour.

Grahame

PS it does depend on how wet they got.Too much moisture ie could leach the required minerals etc from the flux.

Hello Grahame, Gemini Rods are in NO WAY related to or affiliated with the prestigious Kobe Rods

Originally Posted by Inverter

Hello Grahame, Gemini Rods are in NO WAY related to or affiliated with the prestigious Kobe Rods

I agree with this but I question your motives for reviving an old thread. There used to be a Gemini website (something like http://geminithai.co.th) but its server was corrupted and page requests were returning silly ads for social products.

Update: the website is working but if you go to their home page you'll see it is a bit odd.

Steven,
Firstly I don't consider it that I revived an old an old thread.
I responded to a post in a timely fashion,rather than revived it.
Secondly there is no ulterior motive to question.I mentioned the Gemini electrodes as I have purchased,used them, and found them to be quite acceptable and happy to report on it.

About the website,I have no idea what so ever.It is the first I have heard of it.

I do accept that I am incorrect about the relationship with KOBE, but as I did say earlier, I suspected a connection nothing else as I had no proof of it.

I still think they are as good ( in some cases,better) as other brand name electrodes on the market.

Steven, please outline your concern about my post. What is the problem?

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Steven, please outline your concern about my post. What is the problem?

Sorry Grahame, I wasn't referring to your post but that belonging to Inverter. Your comments are fine (and I now know how to spell sludgy).

Oops then, sorry Phelum.

I loved the term sludgy.
It can be difficult to put the description of how the arc of a particular electrode performs.
The out position electrode ,by its nature is sludgy,ie it doesn't flow as easily as an electrode intended for basic flat work.
You encapsulated that description of it perfectly.

I will have to do a segment on iron powder rods and we'll show these guys scorpion tails.

Catcha
GRAHAME

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I will have to do a segment on iron powder rods and we'll show these guys scorpion tails.

This would be good so please do if you get the time and inclination. I tried a few 7016 rods that were given to me and they seemed easy to use. Tips on how to use them and where they are better than type 12 or 13 rods would be useful.

Cheers,

Why would you question my motive? I check the forums very rarely which is the problem. I tend to go through the topics quite some time after the threads were started.

Originally Posted by phelum

I agree with this but I question your motives for reviving an old thread. There used to be a Gemini website (something like http://geminithai.co.th) but its server was corrupted and page requests were returning silly ads for social products.

Update: the website is working but if you go to their home page you'll see it is a bit odd.

As this old thread has been revived, I thought that as the original poster, I might give an update regarding my original predicament of not being able to get small size electrodes as readily at my local hardware stores as I would like.

I took the advice given herein and ordered three 2 kg packets of Gemini rods from Bob-the-Welder. These rods were surprisingly very cost effective compared with what I could get at Bunnings and other local stores, even including the cost of postage of such heavy, low value materials and they were delivered extremely promptly. As a special treat, they have a picture of "Bob-the-Welder" on each bubble-wrapped packet.


I have now been using them with great delight, bearing in mind that I am a mug amateur with awful welding skills but nonetheless enjoying a sense of fun in what I am doing with my welder. (Thank goodness for angle grinders! )

I find them very easy to use.


My wife has pointed out, however, that they have a more pungent smell than the Murex rods that I had been using previously.

Originally Posted by Charleville

I have now been using them with great delight, bearing in mind that I am a mug amateur with awful welding skills but nonetheless enjoying a sense of fun in what I am doing with my welder. (Thank goodness for angle grinders! )

I find them very easy to use.

I'm still using Gemini also and they still seem fine. They really are an excellent deal (good price, easy delivery). I suppose real welders can get good deals on other rods but for mugs like me it is much better than trekking to Bunnings or whatever and paying top dollar.

I'm glad to hear it's worked out well for you.