Thread: Need help picking a 3in1 welder!

More information regarding the type of welding you intend to do would assist. Will it be workshop based or will you be out and about (or a combination of both)? What thickness steel are you intending to weld. Do you intend to weld aluminium (none of the machines you've quoted will do AC TIG)

It may be that you get better value for your money by buying a single process machine rather than an "all-in-one" machine. Bear in mind that you need different gas for MIG and TIG.

To the best of my knowledge, BOC do not make their own machines, they rebadge machines from other manufacturers.

That BOC does look nice - as mentioned, they're re-badged machines, but virtually every welder in that price bracket it - i.e. there's no BOC or Token Tools factory, rather they're made to a spec in a Chinese factory that probably produces machines for dozens of other brands. There's nothing wrong with that - provided the design and specification is good, the machines can be every bit as good as one made in Europe or the US. Where problems arise is where the buyer discovers he can save $25 per unit by specifying inferior capacitors, or by using a cheaper board design that doesn't have the performance or robustness of a better-engineered board.

That results in a welder that may fail prematurely due to bad caps, exhibit poor current regulation, not cope well with varying input voltage / line impedance, giving Chinese-made welders a bad name just because the buyer was greedy.

All that aside, I don't think you'd go too far wrong with the BOC, but it'd be good to find someone who's used one. Provided you're happy with DC TIG (steel only) then it looks ideal. Adding DC TIG to a stick welder is pretty simple - you just need to change the current regulation algorithm. Adding AC TIG is a whole different matter, which is why you rarely see Stick/MIG/AC-DC TIG units.

I would have a good look at the Token Tools offerings. The difference is that they are an Aussie company with a bricks and mortar shop.The proprietor is a ex electrician who went on to be an Electrical Engineer.

He designs the Token Tools welding units specifying top components. The units can be repaired at his shop shop IF they ever fail in the long warranty period or after.The shop has trained staff and is capable of executing a time efficient repair and dispatch back to the owner as they have parts on hand and don't have to wait on China for them.

Token tools has a very solid reputation on this very board going back nearly a decade or so. There are quite a few on this forum who have bought machines from them and are very happy with them. As far as I can remember there has never been a whinge about one of their machines. Add to this is that Token tools does not actively promote them ( in this forum) but just lets the word of mouth thing do its work. He does join in answering a post now and again,normally answering an electrical/electronics question about welders.

If you do have questions ring them up and you will find Peter very much different person than what the welding machine buyer expects from a "welder salesman"

You can't say that about any of the other machines mentioned.

Lastly I'll state I have no connection with Token Tools at all, other than to have spoken with them once about Plasma specs.

Grahame Collins

I can't say anything about Token Tools welders but I purchased a plasma cutter from them last year and it was a good buying experience and it has worked flawlessly. I got the impression I was buying from a real person and not just the web.

I bought a Token Tools Ac/Dc digital welder earlier this year and happy with its performance. Haven't used it as much as I hoped yet but happy with Tig welding aluminium and stick welding steel with it. When I rang up to get info about two ac/dc machines Pete answered all my questions and I was ready to buy one then. However he advised me to think about what I wanted first so I did that and ordered one on line from them a few days later!

While mine is not a 3in1 welder I expect Token Tools ones to be a similar good standard to mine.

Also have free delivery available which I like because of my location. No connection to them, just a satisfied customer.

Thanks a lot guys!

I have heard a lot of great things about token tools welders, and their fantastic customer service, which sounds great!

Gavin, at this point it will just be a garage unit, mainly for working on my project car. I'd also like to built an offset smoker later on in the year That's all the projects I have in mind for now, but being a carpenter and a bit of a car nut, I'd say it will get used here and there.

I would really like to learn Tig, mainly for stainless, if I decide to Tig alloy later on I'd invest in a better dedicated Tig machine.

I should also add, I checked the price on the BOC today and the price I listed wasn't including gst, so the price is actually around $835, which is still good for what seems like a lot of machine.

I believe all the machines I have listed are made in China, most machines in this price range are as rustyarc was saying.

BOC says their warranty will be an on the spot replacement machine, which sounds great. I like the fact that BOC offer that, and token tools offer a 5 year warranty, I guess it shows they have confidence in their product!

I've got a tokentools AC/DC 4 in 1 TIG as well as a tokentools 210 synergic MIG. I can fully recommend the machines and the after sales support. Given such a good track record, I would also hazard a guess that tokentools have a pretty good resale value.

You'll find there's general negativity towards multi-process machines, but really for occasional use, having the flexibility is a big asset. For example, with the 4 in 1 machine, I use all 4 modes (plasma, AC, DC, Stick) often. The MIG gets less use generally, but is great for the right job. Although I have the synergic version of the MIG, I find I adjust my settings manually and don't use the machine's memory function - so those extra features are wasted on me for the most part.

As mentioned above, you'll need two gas types if you want to TIG and MIG. The rental/purchase of a 2nd cylinder is probably worth more than the differences in pricing of the machines. If I was only going to get one machine and gas for a range of future, unspecified projects, I would repeat my original purchase and get an AC/DC TIG which is a very flexible machine. If you're concentrating to stitching car panels together then going down the MIG line is sensible

Good luck

- Mick

While I've heard nothing but good things about TokenTools machines and their service, one thing that really rubs me the wrong way is their warranty. They offer a 1 year warranty, with a 2 or 5 year option if you pay more, i.e., they effectively offer an extended warranty.

Australian consumer law says quite clearly that a product has a statutory warranty that covers what would be regarded as a reasonable life for the machine. I think it's reasonable to expect a welder to last 5 years, maybe 10+ if I paid a premium for a fancy brand.

It could be that TokenTools believe that you can only reasonably expect their welders to last one year, but I doubt the ACCC would support that viewpoint, unless TokenTools can offer evidence of their machines routinely failing within 1 year.

Extended warranties are typically an upsell that verges on a scam (in most cases you're actually purchasing insurance) and TokenTools use of them to extract a bit more cash from uninformed consumers reflects poorly on them IMO, regardless of the quality of their machines.

I would take the Token Tools machine over a BOC any day. The cheap BOC machines are little better than the worst ebay specials in my view.
I have not used a Token Tools machine, but I also have never heard a negative comment in their direction. I have used BOC machines and my dislike for them only increases.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating BOC over TokenTools - haven't used either machine in question, nor heard of anyone who has used them. I have a little BOC 130 SmoothArc that I'm very impressed with, but I wouldn't use that as any kind of measure against some other BOC unit, as it could well be made in a different factory to a different spec.

All I have an issue with is TokenTools' extended warranties. It's not in line with Australian consumer law, and I think it reflects poorly on a brand like TokenTools that otherwise has a very good reputation.

Originally Posted by RustyArc

All I have an issue with is TokenTools' extended warranties... and I think it reflects poorly on a brand like TokenTools that otherwise has a very good reputation.

If you apply that standard, I don't think anything does - our 'old' car is 15 years old and still going well, but the warranty was only 2 years. Our fridge is getting on to 30 years. My welder is nearly 10 and so on.

My expectation of warranty is that it is there to catch early failures which for reasons of either poor components or workmanship it is unreasonable to expect a consumer to pay for. Depending on the product, a year is a reasonable time to shake those out. 'Extended warranties' are insurance. I usually refuse to buy them on the basis that the company would not offer them without an expectation of not needing them so I'm unlikely to experience a failure.

Warranty periods are also affected by what other manufacturers (of the same or similar product) do - that is, what does the competition regard as a decent warranty period. Especially for a welder that may be used in atrocious conditions, 1 year is not unreasonable. I've worked in companies that sell warrant-able goods, and some of the conditions things come back in (and some of the stories attached to them)....

Michael

Rusty - that's a fair point to make, particularly with more and more fine print accompanying every sale, but I think that's a negative spin on it at least in this situation. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that tokentools is fully aware of their statutory responsibilities and don't hide from them. I remember a conversation I with Pete from Tokentools earlier this year. The topic came up because I was having trouble with an unrelated piece of electronic equipment and knowing that Pete had knowledge of such things I had the audacity to reach out to him for some advice. During that conversation I seem to remember that this is how it sometimes goes down when he's answering a sales call:

Interested Customer: 'look man, I really like your welders but I can get cheaper on ebay'
Tokentools: 'sure, but ours rock... [insert tech stuff]... and are really good'
IC: 'how good?'
T: 'well.... we have a 5 year warranty as standard'
IC: 'is that why they're expensive? I don't want to pay for a 5 year warranty [nag] [nag] [niggle]'
T: 'OK, ... that's fine.... look, I'll give you the same warranty as the cheaper guy and I'll knock a few bucks off'.'
IC: 'Deal man... you're so cool - you should offer this to everyone!'

My apologies to Pete if my recollection is completely wrong. But in the end the customer gets the same machine, good after sales service and is still covered by a statutory warranty. For those of you that haven't seen me say it before - I've got no affiliation, don't get any kick backs, etc. I just don't like seeing good business operators wrongly cop a negative wrap.

Cheers
- Mick

Originally Posted by WelderMick

T: 'OK, ... that's fine.... look, I'll give you the same warranty as the cheaper guy and I'll knock a few bucks off'.'
IC: 'Deal man... you're so cool - you should offer this to everyone!'

I don't want to be mean about all this, but whatever the logic was, the numbers tell the story: they offer their machines at one price with a 1 year warranty, and you pay more if you want a longer warranty. You can argue it backwards if you want, but that doesn't change the numbers.

I've been stooging around for an AC TIG machine with an eye to getting into all that weldin' Coke cans, walking the cup, stackin' them dimes etc. which is what had me come across the TokenTools range and looking a bit closer at their prices and warranties.

Yeah, you're not a welder until you stick 2 coke cans to each other
Actually, I seem to remember that the challenge now is not so much welding two cans end on end, but instead, cut one can in half then weld it back together.

Fair enough with warranties - best I can suggest is talk to the vendors, read the fine print and form your own opinion.