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Thread: inverter welder power supply
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15th February 2009, 11:42 AM #1Novice
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inverter welder power supply
Greetings gentlemen and thanks for all the advice imparted from my readings of your posts.
I currently have a $100 Ozito welder that I use with 2.5 rods on 3mm + steel. My power supply is normal domestic + generator in the ute for paddock work. This combo in my very inexperienced hands seems to produce ugly but strong welds. It's a farm so that's ok.
I now want to make up a canopy and tool boxes for the ute using sheet metal and thinner walled square section. I will be using 1.6 rods.
I have been considering an inverter welder on this thinner metal job for a few reasons;
1. light wt portability, pretty important lugging the thing around.
2. easier strike/start and better looking welds on thinner metal
Some questions;
A. I have heard that inverters are not happy running off generators as they can fry the electronic boards. Is this the case?
B. Do they draw more 'power' (sorry electricity is not my thing, so maybe incorrect terminology) than a normal arc welder? Will I need a larger gene ( current one 2.5kw)
B. Some inverters need a 15 amp plug, can this run off a generator and around the shed will a 15 amp extension lead be all I need off domestic supply?
Any suggestions, comments, myth busting gratefully appreciated.
Michael
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15th February 2009 11:42 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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15th February 2009, 02:05 PM #22-legged animal
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G,day. I'm in a very similar situation and eagerly await some knowledgeable reply's.
Also wondering how an inverter welder would go ,out in the paddock running of a bigger generator ,and running 4 - 5 ml rods.Apparently the inverter welders are good for 4-5 ml rods running on the mains [15 amp] , wondering if a generator will do the same and how big a generator would be needed .
Very informative forum . Thanks fellas
---Mat
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15th February 2009, 02:27 PM #3
Hi.
Some lower quality inverters will not tolerate generator power .If you are envisaging a cheaper E bay model, get it in writing first that it will run from a generator. You get what you pay for. On the other hand, I have been there and seen a Fronius model will run off 80 meters of lead from a 15amp GPO. You will pay over $1300 just for this base model.
No they do not draw more .In fact an inverter can usually provide higher output put than a conventional machine as the electronics don’t waste as much energy converting electrical energy from one form to another.
I can’t answer the last question conclusively , but I suspect you might need more that 2.5 Kw to run the welder. Again the supplier of the welder should be able to answer this .
cheers
Grahame
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15th February 2009, 03:34 PM #4GOLD MEMBER
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I run a 200AMP inverter off a 6.8 KVA,both are of Chinese origin with no problems as yet for under $850.00.
The welder is not run constantly from the Gen probably about 30% of the time,not sure about the smaller welders but I have no problem running 4mm rods.
If you decide to go with the inverter I would suggest getting a set of after market Leads the ones that normally come with the Chinese machines in my opinion are to stiff and to short.
Mine originally had 3MTR leads but I opted for 5MTR leads at $64.00.
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15th February 2009, 06:25 PM #5
The way I understand it, is that a big KVa size is needed so your genset is not struggling .When the welder is given full boot on a smaller genny it would cause the rpm 's to fall.
Since RPM,s need to say on 3000 to give 50 Hz, any dip below that causes a voltage drop and it soon follows that this fries the board on your your inverter.I believe the better quality inverter machines have protection against this built in to them.
That is my understanding.
Once again, have his verified with vendors before you rush out and buy something.
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15th February 2009, 08:15 PM #6SENIOR MEMBER
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Excuse my ignorance but is an inverter welder a DC welder? Its just that inverters convert DC to AC and rectifiers convert AC to DC. Or do inverter welders change the frequency?
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15th February 2009, 09:09 PM #7
Hi
The short answer is yes (sorta) but it is really more to it than that.
The AC to DC function you ascribe to inverters is merely, but one of the functions that can be set for them.
People have become familiar in the early days with them to say, run a AC powered device from a car battery.
The are a high speed switching device and in their welding livery change the frequency of the AC input power from 50Hz to multiple thousands of Hz as well as rectify the power in most welders ( not all of them in the case of Ac Tigs )
When set on AC stick the arc sound made by my Fronios makes a squealing sound because of the frequency. I suspect that is because of the current rapidly alternating back and forward in the megahertz range. Oddly enough it does not bother the tv or radio.
The beauty of inverters is that they provide a very lightweight power source in comparison to transformer/rectifier setups. One noticeable thing for the new user is that will weld better over a far greater amperage range.
Also the inverters negligible energy loss in the form of heat which means nearly all of the energy that goes in, comes out as welding current.This is why they can weld reasonably well on bloody long cables ,though caution is required.
By adding other electrical controls the current can be superbly manipulated to allow the inverter welder to perform a range of new functions and to weld in new ways that the older style machines just could not manage.
Those functions are a discussion I 'd rather get into at another time.
cheers
Grahame
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16th February 2009, 07:20 PM #8Novice
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It seems mst generators, including mine have a 10 amp outlet so that rules out a lot of these inverters. Getting a real idea from these vendors on what size gene for these units has been a bit imprecise so far. I will be speaking to some more chaps and the engineer and will gie feedback once I know.
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17th February 2009, 01:59 AM #9GOLD MEMBER
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Probably not the best thing to do but when I use my Generator or dont have access to a 15AMP outlet I use an adapter lead (10 AMP inlet 15 AMP out let) its about 300mm long.
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17th February 2009, 06:17 PM #10Novice
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On a similar but slightly different angle.
What is the minimum amperage required from a machine to efficiently run a 2.5mm rod? I'e been told it is between 100-120 A. This will allow me to investigate which machines hae the best duty cycle at these amperages.
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17th February 2009, 07:27 PM #11
Around about 90 to 105 for 2.5mm .
this will vary a bit between;
- Different brands of electrode.
- Different welding machines
Cheers
Grahame
- Different brands of electrode.
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17th February 2009, 08:36 PM #12terry
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inverter arc welder
Hi buildersboy i have a Boc smootharc 130 amp inverter,after good advice from Graham this is what i brought,so good unreal.With 2.5 rods on 2.5mm rhs i use aprox 65-80amps i also use 3.2 rods at 80-90 95amps on 2.5mm rhs the rods are metalcorp. I find this welder very powerful yet will go down very low,easyly uses 3.2 very smooth i am a retired person who is a home welder, found out today where i buy my steel and bits and pieces closed down Metalcorp at Munibung Rd Cardiff very sad was told all the men were layed off no good i found them very helpful helped me with good tips on welding.I cant wrap this inverter enough and only $328. cheers terry.
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17th February 2009, 08:39 PM #13terry
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inverter arc welder
Sorry buildersboy it only runs on 10amp plug too,cheers.
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17th February 2009, 09:28 PM #14Novice
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Thanks Dorac.
It looks like I have narrowed it down to to the 10 amp plug machines ( I think) I have been reading the Farming Ahead mag 02/07 ed, and have been looking at the;
BOC 130 smooth arc (10 amp-good, needs a 5.5kv gene-bad, good rep and price)
Token Tools Miniarc 142 (15 amp, prob will run off 2.5kv gene at half pace, good price) sounded the best but 15 amp
Weldsmart 200Amp (10 amp, told will run off a 2.5kv gene) $365 + $30 postage 1 yr warranty)
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