Thread: Mig welder problems

I have just been doing some research on liners, tips and gasless wire and I am wondering if I should go back to a steel liner and / or 0.9mm wire.

I changed to a teflon liner as I was given one by gasweld when I returned the welder with feeding problems. As stated in a previous thread the problem at that time was found later by me to be a kink in the liner caused by the packaging of the welder in the factory. Fixed style torch. I fitted the teflon liner as it was my only option at the time. Fitting it required some lathe work to clamp in the torch. I was also told at gasweld that a curtain spring can be used as a replacement. Comments?

Steel liners last longer. Should I look at going back to using them?

I am using 0.8mm wire because it is what came with the welder. Would I have any issues with using 0.9mm gasless wire with my 120 Amp welder? This is easier to find than 0.8mm.

Dean

I am fairly sure a teflon liner should be used with aluminium wire, for mild steel a steel liner is used. As for the curtain wire... theoretically, yes, but curtain wire is made from round section wire where MIG liners are flat. I expect this would make initial feed problems worse but would be okay once you got the wire through

It is possible that you have the wrong drive roller or have the roller tension wound down too far, which will make the wire oval in section rather than round and make it 'spiral' as it moves down the liner.

Of course it is possible that the liner has been cut too short! When installing a new liner it should be cut a little bit too long (say 3/8") so that it needs to be forced into it's working position. If the liner is too short there will be a space inside the torch for the wire to get stuck in and will be virtually impossible to get the wire to feed at all.

Originally Posted by Gerbilsquasher

I am fairly sure a teflon liner should be used with aluminium wire, for mild steel a steel liner is used. As for the curtain wire... theoretically, yes, but curtain wire is made from round section wire where MIG liners are flat. I expect this would make initial feed problems worse but would be okay once you got the wire through

It is possible that you have the wrong drive roller or have the roller tension wound down too far, which will make the wire oval in section rather than round and make it 'spiral' as it moves down the liner.

Of course it is possible that the liner has been cut too short! When installing a new liner it should be cut a little bit too long (say 3/8") so that it needs to be forced into it's working position. If the liner is too short there will be a space inside the torch for the wire to get stuck in and will be virtually impossible to get the wire to feed at all.

We seem to be connecting today.

Para 1.

You are most likely correct. I am just a learner. My welder is a Sip type welder. Cheap, not a good buy. Actually a toolex, a red Sip. I don't know how good the original liners would be.

Para 2.

Thanks to reading a post by Grahame Collins I have the tension set about right and the roller is the standard roller supplied. It is serrated. The wire is not distorted when it exits the torch. It is set so that a blockage should cause slippage not a birds nest or close.

Para 3.

The liner extends right thru to the tip holder and the blockage point was before the end of the liner. From the torch to the end is a brass tube with a bend in the middle. I think the blockage may have been at the location of this bend. The liner passes thru this tube.

Dean

I have a toolex and the liner buggerd up. Took it to welder shop ( not where I got it ) and they replaced teflon liner with steel one straight away. They rekon they like hat full of you know what. Have no troubles with it since.

Use a steel liner, teflon is for aluminium wire. Also when you are feeding the wire through the lead and torch it is a lot easier if you remove the tip and shroud first, run the wire through till it pokes out the end by a inch or so then put the tip and shroud back on.

Curtain wire does work!

I wouldn't necessarily recommended it but I was desperate and needed a quick fix.

Certainly got me out of trouble.

Cheers

Justin

Originally Posted by cookie48

I have a toolex and the liner buggerd up. Took it to welder shop ( not where I got it ) and they replaced teflon liner with steel one straight away. They rekon they like hat full of you know what. Have no troubles with it since.

Mine had steel to start with but as I live nearly 100km from the shop and I had a teflon one. Another vote for steel Tho.

Use a steel liner, teflon is for aluminium wire. Also when you are feeding the wire through the lead and torch it is a lot easier if you remove the tip and shroud first, run the wire through till it pokes out the end by a inch or so then put the tip and shroud back on.

Rat1314

And another one. I usually do remove the tip and I don't have the shroud on.

Curtain wire does work!

I wouldn't necessarily recommended it but I was desperate and needed a quick fix.

Certainly got me out of trouble.

Justin

Thanks for the heads up. I will remember that advice.


I have decided to go for steel liners.

Any ideas whether 0.9mm wire would be successful in a 120 amp mig.

Dean

As MIGs are a constant-voltage device, larger wire will need more amps to melt it. So your welder will work a little bit harder. If you find the 0.8 is no problem with your duty cycle, then give 0.9 a try. Be sure to get some new tips as it won't like going through 0.8 at the end.
Also your knurled rollers are meant only for flux-core wire. If using solid wire, you may be marking it with the rollers and this will increase the wear on your liner (teflon or steel).
Use a smooth V roller for steel wire.

Originally Posted by Single-phase

As MIGs are a constant-voltage device, larger wire will need more amps to melt it. So your welder will work a little bit harder. If you find the 0.8 is no problem with your duty cycle, then give 0.9 a try. Be sure to get some new tips as it won't like going through 0.8 at the end.
Also your knurled rollers are meant only for flux-core wire. If using solid wire, you may be marking it with the rollers and this will increase the wear on your liner (teflon or steel).
Use a smooth V roller for steel wire.

Ok on the 9mm tips. I have never had a duty cycle cut out after nearly 4.5 kg of wire use. I have not done a continous long seam yet tho. Maybe should have been clearer. I have only used gasless in this welder hence the serrated side of the roller.

Dean

I believe I have just solved one of my original questions which nobody seemed to have anything to say about.

Another problem has been plaguing me for some time. Since I fitted the teflon liner maybe? Every so often the wire jams in the tip. I remove the tip and find a build up of black plastic looking fibres packed into the countersink of the tip, around the wire.

Any suggestions regarding this issue?

Found on the following site
Replacing a Wire Liner - SIP Migmate, Topmig and Cosmo

Swan neck

The swan neck won't normally need to be replaced unless the screw thread for the tip is damaged, but it's a quick and easy job. The neck is clamped into the brass block with a grub screw.

The thing that does need to be replaced on this welder is the swan neck liner (in the photo the replacement is being pushed through the swan neck). It's always worth fitting a contact tip to check the length of this liner before screwing everything back together. Mine was a bit long and needed to be trimmed.
New swan neck liner


Here's a blurry photo of the end of the old swan neck liner. It's full of bits of plastic pulled out of the old PVC wire liner. I guess the bits of plastic worn off the liner make it as far as the tip, get hot, then melt together. Can't be the best thing for a smooth wire feed.

(Photos Deleted)

Dean

Another tip for minimizing crud buildup in your liner is run your wire through a ear plug. Place the plug between the roller and guide tube. every time you replace the roll replace the plug.

This wipes any surface crap off the wire which can buildup when the machine sits idle.

Teflon liner is for aluminium, probably be good idea to change welding suppliers, all these fools seem to have done is waste your time and money.

Garry

Another tip for minimizing crud buildup in your liner is run your wire through a ear plug. Place the plug between the roller and guide tube. every time you replace the roll replace the plug.

This wipes any surface crap off the wire which can buildup when the machine sits idle.

This sounds like a great idea. On my welder the wire is guided by a tube both before and after the rollers. These are both positioned very close to the rollers. I would have to have a look and a think about how to arrange this.

Teflon liner is for aluminium, probably be good idea to change welding suppliers, all these fools seem to have done is waste your time and money.

I would agree entirely with that statement. I have spent a huge amount of money there over the years but not any more. I will not buy anything but consumable type stuff from them now and it is very rare they are able to beat other prices. They have basically lost me as a customer.

When I first took this welder back to them to fix I was thinking about replacing it with a Lincoln of double the price. I was told flat out that this was not going to happen. I explained that the law gave me the right. I was later told that they had rung consumer affairs and were told that my claims were totally false and no such requirement existed. I did not bother to tell them that I studied Business Law as part of Ass. Dip. of Accounting and I knew all about the trade practices act. Not worth the trouble. Just make a note to self. Only if absolutely needed and then be careful.

Dean

Hi oldneweng,
I just read your thread and actually I had a same problem with the same mig welding machine that I bought from Gasweld 8 years ago. As I'm not really a Pro in welding, I changed my welding wire from the 0.8 gas mig wire to 0.9 flux mig wire without changing into bigger tip as Just want to save $ from gas bottle (very expensive and cost u $20 plus and won't last long). Then I found out exactly the same problem that you experienced as per your description. I brought back the machine to Blacktown branch and asked for repair. Few days later, Gasweld rang me back with a quote of $140.00 and told me that I need to replace the whole torch. As my knowledge to the welding is limited, I had to trust them without question. But after read your thread, I think I've been ripped off by Gasweld. From my memory, I bought the machine for just more than $500 and charge me $140 for repair. Besides, the torch seems not a new one and I suspect they didn't really replace the whole torch but just the nozzle and tip.
So what do u think guys, have I been ripped off by Gasweld?
Phil


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?odsxan

First welcome to the forum.

If the torch is not new it would seem so but it does not take much to rack up that sort of money these days in repairs. Depends on what the invoice said they did. A new handpiece and 1.6m cable from Bob the Welder SIP-BOSS.#::#Mig#Guns#::#Bob#the#Welder is $145. I only really know the one Gasweld store but it has gone seriously down hill since they became a Gasweld store. They lied to me about my consumer rights and that tells me not to trust them.

When you started using the 0.9mm wire did you replace the roller too as that is specific to wire size? I have not been able to find a 0.9mm roller to suit. Gasless (flux) wire also needs a serrated roller.

Flux wire is not the best term to use as there are flux wires available which still require gas. Gasless wire is less likely to be misunderstood. Do some reading on this forum and you will soon gain lots of knowledge.

Dean