Thread: New Mig Welder

I only made reference to the battery charger to illustrate that the power supplied by many of these gennies is somewhat different to that supplied by the average GPO.
As I see it, you have decided you want another welder. Whether it will run from your gennie is really a secondary factor for you. The simple answer at this point is no, not until the issue of a 15A plug in a 10A hole is addressed. Are your shed outlets 15A?
My understanding of running equipment off an under performing fixed power supply is that increased heat is generated due to the volts dropping and the amps increasing to try and sustain the load. Not sure how this pans out with regard to gennies, because they can only push a finite amount of power out in the first place. Actually, come to think of it, I have seen a similar situation, not welding related, but I will recount the story.
There was an area in the mine I worked at where, for whatever reason, the services had been pulled back and there was no Jumbo box, (ruddy great big power point), in the area. We had a Cummins powered Genset, (1000V for anyone interested), running a Flyght pump for dewatering, which it did really well. The need arose to run the Jumbo in this heading, which should not have been too big an issue, because the Genset had outlets for both the small Macey plugs as used on pumps and the large version to suit the Jumbo. I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Jumbo's, but they have a diesel motor for tramming, but all the serious work is done by two 60KW 1000V hydraulic packs. Anyway, said Jumbo was plugged in, the Genset was already running, the start button was pressed for the first power pack and it burst into life. The second power pack when started, pulled the revs of the Cummins down so rapidly that the 6Cyl diesel actually stalled. The root cause was the Genset was actually designed to power a smaller Jumbo with twin 50KW packs. We even tried not running the Flyght pump, (8KW).
I'll be interested to see if your gennie performs in a similar manner. Different application, but similar load characteristics.

At the moment I have 1 double 15A gpo but this is just connected to the normal wiring. Probably not a good idea but I am the only one who uses these. I should label them tho. The reason for this is that my mill has a 15A plug for some reason and I did not want to change the plug on a new mill. The mill has one motor of 2 hp only. No need for 15A. I have started laying 6mm cable in a 45m run back to the switchboard so I (Sparky actually) can set up a 25A circuit for my VSD to run the 3ph lathe when I swap this with my old one eventually. I will run an outlet off this just for welding. Obviously only one unit can be used at a time for this circuit.

Will have to wait at least 9 months before I can try the new welder and report back. I have been told I can have the welder next vintage (I work in a winery) but will have to wait til after vintage finishes before I get time to play. All my spare time during vintage is spent sleeping.

I will give the mig a better try out on the genny today as well as trying the arc welder. Have to finish off that gate, make another one and some hinges.

Dean

Quick update. Arc welder trips the switch at 90 amps but voltage (the gen set has a volt gauge) drops then settles back on 240v while welding for a short time. No go here.

The mig set on max of 120A does the same thing except the drop is minor and switch does not trip. Did several welds without trouble. Motor is not labouring.

Dean

Sounds like progress. You could live with 120A if you had to, but it sounds like the gennie may have a bit more left to give.
Good result.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

Sounds like progress. You could live with 120A if you had to, but it sounds like the gennie may have a bit more left to give.
Good result.

I am happy that I have a welder that can run off the genny. I forgot to mention before that the gen set has a rated power of 3200W and a power factor of beta cos 1.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I am happy that I have a welder that can run off the genny. I forgot to mention before that the gen set has a rated power of 3200W and a power factor of beta cos 1.

Just to clarify, that spec means the genny will deliver 3,200W to a load with a power factor of 1 (unity - PF cannot be higher than this only lower). When you do hunt down a welder, you want one with a PF as close as possible to 1. Your transformer (I assume) MIG would have a much lower PF, maybe in the 0.6 region, and inverter units, without power factor correction (PFC) will have a similarly poor power factor, limiting how many amps you can run. If you get a welder with a better PF, you'll be able to run more amps.

Power factor is one of those things that doesn't matter when a welder is connected to the mains, which is why many have a poor PF (correcting it adds costs to the design, and in transformer welders, can result in increased power consumption at idle), but makes a huge difference when running off a genny.

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I am leaning towards waiting, and getting a Tokentools 210A multi process welder. Seems to tick all the buttons and of course has a 5 year warranty. It is priced at $899.

I've got this one Synergic Welders New Synergic Mig Welder Welding Machines For Sale Australia and wrote a bit about it here: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/me-mig-168449/
Cheers
- Mick

Thanks for clarifying that for me Rusty. I am picking up crumbs all along the way.

Mick. Also thanks for the heads up on the synergic welder. I had seen the references but did not know what they were so I ignored them. At $100 more that one is well worth considering.

Using the arc welder today hilighted how little I use it since getting the mig. I was more dreadful than usual and I don't call myself a good welder.More practice required. I am using the arc welder because the mig is more expensive to supply wire to (gasless) and cos the spool is getting down a bit . I also have quite a few welding rods.

Tonight I put the rods I was using into our little electric stove for a while to dry them out and see if it improved matters. They have been stored in pvc pipe with push on caps so should not be damp but you never know. Our wood range has a small warming compartment under the oven. I suggested that I store my rods in there. Guess what I was told?





"It never gets used for anything else so why not"!

Sounds like a plan.

Dean

I hear you on stick and MIG. Most of my welding work is farm-related, and I try to alternate between stick and MIG as I believe the former keeps me a better welder. Stick is unforgiving - you get it wrong and it shows, not so much with MIG. Moving between the two you learn how much heat there needs to be in the root of the weld. If my MIG run looks the same as that with stick, I know it's a good weld.

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Mick. Also thanks for the heads up on the synergic welder. I had seen the references but did not know what they were so I ignored them. At $100 more that one is well worth considering.

Truth be known - I don't use all the features, such as settings memory, etc. So I know I'm not getting the full value out of the welder, but I figured the same, for $100 extra it's nice to have. It's just a normal mig welder, but has some pre-set modes to get you started and a default voltage : amperage relationship under the different modes/wire thicknesses, so when you adjust one, the other follows (but you can manually adjust it easily as well). The memory settings are potentially very useful, if you spend a lot of time fine tuning for particular joints and want to revisit that same sort of job consistently without having to fine-tune again. I think it has 10 memories to fill (might be heaps more, I just can't remember). Pete at tokentools did a little video when I had some questions, which I hope he won't mind me sharing Synergic Mig Welder 210DS - YouTube. It might be out of date now though.
Regarding stick vs MIG, I still use stick quite a bit particularly in hard to clean areas. I'm not on a farm - but I reckon I'd be using stick a lot more if I was, and I'd be going for one of those portable over the shoulder units rather than a 30kg multi-process machine. MIG has been invaluable for me on thin walled galvanised tubing - which is the primary reason I got it.
Cheers
- Mick

After a lot of procrastination I finally spent my tax return plus a bit today. Thanks here to the ATO for removing the spouse rebate and losing me about $1500 per year.

I bought a BOC Smootharc 175. It is a synergic multiprocess. Tig, Mig and stick. Comes with all attachments and a full sized regulator. Binzel branded Mig torch. Does not have a welding mask or chip hammer, thank goodness. I did change the spring clamp welding rod holder for a new screw type rod holder I had lying around. Much better in the hand.

As I have not had or used an inverter unit before I did not realise that the Mig/Tig power settings were rated in voltage rather than amps. At least mine are. The old Mig just had 3, 2 position switches, Hi, Low etc.

One thing I want to ask, is it normal to leave the Mig cable connected while using it for stick welding. Seems like a hassle to pull the wire each time.

I have done a few runs with the Mig on different thickness material from about 1mm up to 3mm. Very nice to use but need to work out settings for best results.

A couple of quick short runs with the Arc on 6mm steel. The first one was too high at 140 amps and the next one seemed about right at 120 amps. My old Arc welder tops out at 130 amps but the new one at 120 amps was much better. Instant arc! I then tried a fillet weld. Hmm. Way wrong. Too smooth by far! supposed to have big lumps followed by non bridging sections isn't it! Cannot be right, it looks like the books say it should. What did I do wrong.

I decided that was enough excitement for one day and quit. So far I am stoked with it.

Dean

PS SWMBO has started coming up with new things for me to make. SIGH

Nice one Dean... I reckon a few people would be eyeing off that machine - you should write up a bit of a review on it.
Not a bad problem if the missus is pushing you to get more welding time in

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Nice one Dean... I reckon a few people would be eyeing off that machine - you should write up a bit of a review on it.
Not a bad problem if the missus is pushing you to get more welding time in

I was waiting for that suggestion from someone. I was thinking about it today. It will be a tough ask as I have zero previous experience with any sort of inverter welder. I will try to put something together once I have had a bit more of a chance to use it. It may have to be a comparison between inverter / non inverter. I can explain the operation of the welder which may be useful as the manual wasn't very. There was a video I found on YouTube which helped a bit, even with the NZ accent. The manual that came with it and the same manual I downloaded just to see, has a picture of my welder on the front but inside it has what is obviously a previous design of welder and did not show or descibe the connections of the cables for Mig / Arc welding at all for this model. Luckily I happened to ask about the earth lead connection at the shop and remembered what the salesman said.

Re more welding time. I already have enough welding to do. Sigh. At least this welder will make it happen faster. Hopefully I will only have to weld once instead of 3 or 4 times. Finally finished off the fence for the gate I mentioned earlier today. Only abot 18m of fence but a 14ft gate in middle, walking gate at end and cyclone type wire/barb for the rest. Four strainer sets for 18m of fence.

Dean

A quick update. I said I would try the welder with my generator. I had a quick go at mig welding with the gen set today and got it to run at 22v. I stepped it up to 22v and the gen set did trip once at that voltage then seemed ok. Should be enough for what I want. I did not try the arc as I had too much other work to do.

Dean