Thread: High end MMAW inverters?

They are very good machines, refined design, excellent factory R&D, great backup. An analogy is like buying a car, a BMW and a Hyundai will both get you to the beach, both carry a lounge on the roof rack, both tow a trailer. The difference between them is fundamentally linked to income, only the wealthy enjoy the expensive alternative.

I would approach the situation from the elecrode. What does a Fronius or Kemppi do with the current that a cheapo welder cannot? Now that will get people scratching their noggin for sure.

John

To be honest, most will not notice much difference. The more advanced units seem to have a smoother current and perhaps more adjustability of arc characteristics.
The first machine I would knock off my list is the Fronius. A nice welder for sure but repair costs are horrendous, (based upon my experience with a fronius pulse mig). They don't seem to use generic parts and components/service seem to be only available through Fronius. That particular pulse mig cost $4000 to repair 2 faulty circuit boards. The cost of the entire welder was only $6300.
VRD is really only important for confined space work and is often the cause of fatal, (not viable to repair), failures on many inverters.
It depends what your application is as to the aqdvantage of the high end units really.

i own three fronius single phase 240 volt inverter welders and have owned a boc vrd($1000) two italian inverters$800 each and a eutectic machine that is now close to ten years old.i kept the fronius and eut machines and sold off the rubbish.i use the welders proffesionally as a boilermaker/welder on site regularly with generators or long supply leads and to me they pay for themselves.As the question was regards stick welders i give my opinion of same,i dont use an inverter mig.Cheers danny

I think you get what you pay for in the end, but they will all do a job of sorts. I am not a pro welder, just hobbyist but my Kemppi puts a smile on my face everytime I fire it up. I use cheap machines at work, hate them and yes they do the job and I don't know the technical reasons but they are just no where near as nice to use.
A welder that is 10 times more expensive probably isn't 10 times better but definitely nicer to weld with.
Sooooo my thoughts are buy the best you can afford, and I suppose take into account servicing and repair costs as they could be expensive on high end machines. I just hope that mine gives good reliable service, fingers crossed is all I can do but Kemppi seem to have a decent name out in industry and they cop heaps of abuse no doubt.

I use a Kemppi Minarc 150 VRD which I think is an amazing machine. I was using it to do some long runs at full power on a new floor in a loader bucket the other day, and while the hand-piece was so hot I could barely hold it when I took the gloves off, the welder felt cool. I rested it, but I was impressed with what it handled.

I also have a Fronius Transpocket 1500 which are a brilliant welder. It's just not VRD.

I personally think that the main difference between cheap and the more expensive machines is TRUST. I can approach my work with some confidence that the welder will handle the job without letting the smoke out. With the cheaper machines a part of you is always waiting for the puff! I don't like that feeling.

Originally Posted by welding

What does a Fronius or Kemppi do with the current that a cheapo welder cannot?

Well for starters they won't convert electric circuit board components into expensive blue smoke when the boards are subjected to metallic based grinding dust. Phenolic resin coated boards in the good stuff reduce the failure factor big time.

Secondly, the arc characteristics of the quality machines are way different to that of their cheaper and nastier brethren.To tell the difference you will have to have a fair amount of use in both.

Thirdly, the superior electronics allow a degree of application unheard in the cheaper welders. I can weld two pieces of 3mm wire together with my Fronios .Can a E bay bargain basement pox box model do that ?


On the spare parts for Fronius welder I agree will Karl .Just a lousy footpedal to suit my Fronius and they want a grand for it. Overall I reckon in the AC/DC range,having used both Kemppi and Fronius a lot , I reckon the Kemppi had the edge.

Ok most people have a budget and so do I ,but I looked at it on the basis of longevity not $. While nothing is guaranteed to work forever, the chances of a long working life are extended in buying a top end machine.

Thats my 2C anyway
Cheers
Grahame

Just wondering if you would get better value getting a TIG/MMAW machine? You don't have to use the TIG part immediately but most people who aspire to become good welders want to try it eventually.
I have a Miller Dynasty which does both and I find it very nice to use (will run on single or 3 phase). The machines that you have listed are arguably a step up again in 'nice', but I suspect that any of the respected names (Miller, Lincoln, Hobart and so on) will produce a machine that you will find reliable and have suitable features. At work we run Fronius for the MIG side of things but TIG work is done using a Dynasty 350.
The issue I see with the really top end machines is that they are made for professional high quality welding on sometimes tricky materials - welds that are expected to be able to meet stringent code requirements. As you go down in price (and quality level) the certainty that the machine will not not contribute to problems goes down too. Would you trust repairs to say an aircraft wing or nuclear power plant cooling circuit to the machine that you bought on eBay? At the end of the day you are paying for that certainty, so for me the question is more whether that is necessary for what you have in mind to do. (However, to have things both ways, I also believe in getting the best tools/ machines I can afford as I usually need all the help I can get...)

Michael

Originally Posted by LongValley

b) Their ability to cope with varying current quality (i.e. a 7 kVa generator for paddock work)
c) I just love high tech stuff
d) their ability to do things - like arc stability, VRD, cope with varying substrates

No comment from me about your shrink or your treasurer, but on the rest given that budget and what you want the unit to do you may well consider a machine from the Token Tool range.

Yea guy has an electrical background and services what he sells at a shop front ,all that has to be good. He has been round for years and is probably the best you will find.


I have no links at all with them.I have noticed that over the years the feedback on the Forum about Token Tools has been very positive.
Google him up and he may have what you need.

Grahame