Thread: own your own cylinders

I'd love to own my own cylinders - I knew people in Qld who did, but then CIG/BOC fined them when they went to get the filled - I'm not sure if there was money changing hands (ie buying the cylinders back from the owner), but the accounts I heard was that the CIG agent charged them 12 months rental, for the previous year, then 12 months in advance plus fill fees before allowing them to take a cylinder home to replace the empty one they owned.

Other places I've been in, the "owned" cylinders get dumped when empty because the owners don't want the hassle of that attitude from BOC... and given some of those people take 5+ years to empty a G cylinder, it's not hard to see why they wouldn't want to be stung the cylinder rental for a cylinder which will sit protected and secure for 5 years before it can be serviced again - yet the cylinder rental fee is "justified" as costs to service the cylinder each time its refilled - justified in industry where a G may only last a few months at most, but not for 5+ year cycles.

my 2 cents

On the strength of this thread, I contacted Martin Lintott, the Sales Manager of Speedgas to see if they had plans to expand into Victoria - and ask for other options.
Here is today's reply:

Hi Joe
We won't have an agent in Vic in the short term.
We can't freight D, E or G size cylinders to you. You would have to come to NSW to buy one and exchange when empty.
We do have a smaller cylinder that holds 0.46m3 of SpeedShield 5/2 (D size holds 1.7m3). That cylinder we can freight to you. It would be $195 full of gas and includes freight. It would be $60 for the refill including freight back to you. You would just have to cover the cost to send it empty to us. That can be done through Aust Post, an estimate only would be $15 return.
That may help.
thanks
Martin

Nore: 'SpeedShield 5/2' is an Argon/CO2/Oxygen mix suited for Mig welding mild steel.

I was hoping for an option for Argon for TIG welding amuminium and/or stainless

Originally Posted by desbromilow

I'd love to own my own cylinders - I knew people in Qld who did, but then CIG/BOC fined them when they went to get the filled - I'm not sure if there was money changing hands (ie buying the cylinders back from the owner), but the accounts I heard was that the CIG agent charged them 12 months rental, for the previous year, then 12 months in advance plus fill fees before allowing them to take a cylinder home to replace the empty one they owned.

Other places I've been in, the "owned" cylinders get dumped when empty because the owners don't want the hassle of that attitude from BOC... and given some of those people take 5+ years to empty a G cylinder, it's not hard to see why they wouldn't want to be stung the cylinder rental for a cylinder which will sit protected and secure for 5 years before it can be serviced again - yet the cylinder rental fee is "justified" as costs to service the cylinder each time its refilled - justified in industry where a G may only last a few months at most, but not for 5+ year cycles.

my 2 cents

I'm pretty sure this happened due to the "owned" bottles actually being owned by the gas supplier, and has fallen off their records, for whatever reason (being loss, theft etc..) when it comes back for a fill up, they run the serial, and it comes back on the books, and i guess they try to get their money out of the guy who brings it in

Originally Posted by jhovel

On the strength of this thread, I contacted Martin Lintott, the Sales Manager of Speedgas to see if they had plans to expand into Victoria - and ask for other options.
Here is today's reply:

Hi Joe
We won't have an agent in Vic in the short term.
We can't freight D, E or G size cylinders to you. You would have to come to NSW to buy one and exchange when empty.
We do have a smaller cylinder that holds 0.46m3 of SpeedShield 5/2 (D size holds 1.7m3). That cylinder we can freight to you. It would be $195 full of gas and includes freight. It would be $60 for the refill including freight back to you. You would just have to cover the cost to send it empty to us. That can be done through Aust Post, an estimate only would be $15 return.
That may help.
thanks
Martin

Nore: 'SpeedShield 5/2' is an Argon/CO2/Oxygen mix suited for Mig welding mild steel.

I was hoping for an option for Argon for TIG welding amuminium and/or stainless

Yea, it sucks that they aren't coming down there any time soon.
I'm pretty sure they can do the small tanks (and all tanks) with straight argon too. I think these bottles are the ones being advertised on Ebay of late. I did contemplate those, but I wasn't sure about how legit the bottles were, but now I can see they are from speedgas, its a little more enticing.

I do wonder how long a bottle would last in real world terms. I think for myself, I'd probably get the D sized (1.7m3) as its a lot more gas, for an extra $100 ish on the bottle, and another $20 on the refill. of course, that wouldn't work for you.

Hopefully they decide to expand sometime soon.

Originally Posted by stiffman

I know a lot of people don't like paying rental for gas bottles.
I think speed gas have been selling bottles for a while now in areas that have distribution. Unfortunately up until now, Canberra has been without. that is, until I discovered that Gasweld are advertising speedgas bottles on their website.

Today, i just confirmed that canberra will get a supply towards the end of december.
I'm kinda excited, and think I'll try to get a bottle of argon for playing with TIG at home.
Now just to decide weather to get a D sized bottle or an E sized bottle.

Does anyone have an idea of a likely run time one may get out of these sized bottles?

Hi Matt, I've been hanging out for someone to offer a buy-a-bottle scheme here in Canberra.

I currently rent an E sized argon/CO2/O2 mix from Air Liquide (via M&G Industrial) for MIG welding. I've also want a straight argon to TIG but at $189 p.a. rental for another E, I have given it a miss for now. When I first rented the cylinder, M&G said that Air Liquide was thinking about introducing a buy-a-bottle scheme, but that was a year ago and still nothing has materialised as yet.

Thanks for the heads up about to possibility of Gasweld starting a buy-a-bottle, I will be keeping a close eye on them in December.

Just called up Gasweld Fyshwick to find out what the deal was.

D Size - $339 up front (includes first fill), then $89 per fill done on a swap-n-go basis.
E Size - $459 + $145 per fill
G Size - $579 + $189 per fill.

I'll have to do some sums - I'm using a CO2 beer gas cylinder at the moment which should be pretty easy to sell if I want to jump ship.

Went out to Gasweld in Fyshwick and bought a D size argon for $339. I don't do much TIG work so the D should be OK for me. But if I find out that I would better off with an E size, I am free to on-sell the D cylinder. Thanks again for the heads up!

Is the cost per refill more with Speedgas than for the same volume refill from BOC, Air Liquide, etc.

Also is the cost per cubic metre less when you get a big bottle filled (Speedgass & BOC, etc).

I personally think this rental crap is not for safety but for forcing money out of people. Look at scuba tanks, you've got the general public using them and there's no forced rental on them. They have test dates stamped on them, so the same could be done with owned welding gas cylinders, and if the test is out of date the filling centre simply refuses to fill them until a new test is done. Whatever method is used it could be done. My scuba tank was filled up to 3400 psi (232 bar). If it's classed as safe enough to have an owned cylinder like that on your back, rolling around in a boat, a car, etc, then I'm sure they could do it with gas cylinders. How often do you hear of scuba tanks exploding when kept in test and used properly. I haven't even heard of any exploding at all, come to think of it.

(Puts on same hat as worn by the electricity industry)

"Oh, there's no profit motive at all, it's about your safety - this way we are looking after you."

(Takes off electricity industry hat)

Hummmm - I might go and get a D of argoshield myself, and dig out my poor, long neglected MIG!

Well, I'm off to look at TIG welders on ebay now....

Originally Posted by beefy

Is the cost per refill more with Speedgas than for the same volume refill from BOC, Air Liquide, etc.

Also is the cost per cubic metre less when you get a big bottle filled (Speedgass & BOC, etc).

Rang BOC and was quoted $134 for a D cylinder of argon and about $150 for an E.

From memory, BOC is a bit more expensive than Air Liquide.