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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    289

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwcarter View Post
    Oh they do, not this particular one but others on shop shelves I have seen. And like Karl has stated plenty of other machines including mine.
    Indeed, the WIA 270C you referred to earlier does come supplied with a 15 A plug, but what do we find on page 6 of the manual for that welder;

    "Supply plug
    15 Amp (240 V) for initial commissioning only"

    So the people who have wired it up have indeed ignored or missed this point in the manual, and of course the manufacturers will always point back to that clause. "sorry mate, it only on there so you could test it".

    ---------------

    And yes, I quoted the wrong Standard when I refered to 60974.6, but that standard actually says:

    "10.4 Input supply terminal
    As specified in IEC 60974-1, 10.4."

    and what I quoted before were the words from 60974.1. So f
    or industrial _or_ layman use they both must have plugs able to supply Iieff.
    And yes you are now splitting hairs if you say that your industrial sized welder isn't industrial because you use it in a domestic setting, ERAC rules specifically state that is not so. In fact they have a certification database (which I haven't had a look through yet) which I suspect will show the plug size required and I also suspect it won't be 15A on welders with Iieff greater than 15A.

    SWK


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  3. #47
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gracemere
    Age
    45
    Posts
    161

    Default

    I didn't refer to the Wia.

    But referring to the machine I have which is from the same company with similar specs fitted with a 15 amp but with reduced duty cycle (which is stated in the manual). The same goes with this particular machine.

    The argument is can they be run off a 15 amp? Well yes( the manual also states this), but with a trade off of reduced functionality. I have also called Welding Guns Australia and spoken to there Techs about this.

    I am not disagreeing with you that "if you want to drive your welder like a farrari", then yes you plug to suit.

    As stated in the manual- (key word is....can be)

    Being 240v single phase gives great
    portability, it can be run from any 15 Amp power socket providing more flexible use for site and home workshop locations. Ideal for general
    engineers, maintenance workshop, rural workshop, panel beaters, home workshop. Designed and built to our specification. Certified to - AS/
    NZ60974.1

  4. #48
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gracemere
    Age
    45
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swk View Post
    , ERAC rules specifically state that is not so. In fact they have a certification database (which I haven't had a look through yet) which I suspect will show the plug size required and I also suspect it won't be 15A on welders with Iieff greater than 15A.

    SWK


    ERAC looks promising if all states come to the party.
    Its only early days for the EESS register and doubt that they would show plug sizes only basic specs.

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    55

    Default

    "Vernon seems to know what he is talking about"

    I take back every thing I said on this thread
    Vernon is 100% correct the reason this machine is supplied without a plug is because it requires a 32amp one to work at its capacity
    The loop hole as pointed out by someone else
    You can fit a 15amp plug to test the machine referred to as initial commissioning
    It was a new one to me so thanks

  6. #50
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    200

    Default

    Here's my take on what SHOULD happen in certain situations.

    I used to be an industrial sparky so have a little knowledge. The following is my ASSUMPTION.

    Putting things like regulations aside, circuits should be protected so they cannot burn out by too big a current draw which overloads them. IF they are properly protected by the appropriate fuses or breakers then they simpy blow / trip before wires & connections overheat and burn down properties. If protection devices do not do this then I don't call the circuit protected. Surely Australian properties are wired and protected in this way.

    I would guess then that no harm would come from drawing more than 15 amps on a 15 amp circuit. At some point the breaker / fuse would trip to protect the circuit.

    However, plugs and sockets may be a different issue. If they are rated for 15 amps how much / how long can handle as far as more than their rated amps go. I've seen a few plugs and sockets burnt out in my time.

    As far as running a single phase machine on a 3 phase supply, you can obtain a 240v single phase supply from a 3 phase 415v circuit, providing the circuit has a neutral wire. Single phase actually comes from a 3 phase circuits most of the time. In a 5 wire 3 phase circuit, you've got 3 live wires, one neutral wire and one earth wire. Between any of the 3 live wires you get 415v, and between any live wire and the neutral (NOT EARTH) you get 240v. A single phase 240v supply is generally that tap off a 3 phase 415v circuit.

    Keith.

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