Thread: Sparks/Slag/Molten metal when stick welding...how far away is safe?

Thanks. Well a cheap auto darkening might have to be the start unfortunately as one of the first things I was hoping to do is exactly that, make up some small fence type panels using something like 25mm square gal RHS and gal weld mesh. Agreed with justification of the tools, I've done exactly that with the car, haven't been to the mechanic for years other than a pink slip but spent the money on tools as I need them.

I actually have a still sealed in the box Triton steel cutter with spare blade I'm itching to open! Bought it years ago when Triton was getting out of Bunnings etc and all the triton stuff was going cheap. I've been tempted to flog it off a few times since it sat there unopened but I knew I'd regret it if I did since I picked it up so cheap.

Can I ask what pipe bender you have?

Originally Posted by Legion

The alternative, like I started with, is the $20 fixed helmet and clamp some scrap right next to the work. Start the arc on the scrap then quickly transfer to the work. Once the arc is started, you only need a fixed shade. Problem for me was I do lots of very short welds on very small work (e.g. lots of 25mm SHS). So without an auto helmet, it was hard to strike in the right spot without completely missing the work since you're striking blind with a fixed helmet. On large work that's not a problem, you just strike nearby and quickly move to the weld and no harm done except a bit of cleanup. But on 25mm SHS you are likely to fall off the side and break the arc etc so you just end up with a mess that needs cleanup. It didn't take long before I decided to spring for the $$$ helmet and the Digital Elite had the feature (X-mode) that I knew I'd use the most.

I'm not sure about the $100 Chinese auto helmet specials. From what I've read, they have a high rate of failure (in that they don't darken appropriately or too slow or whatever). It's enough for me to avoid them and if my helmet breaks I'm happy enough with it that I'll buy another. Also, the more $$$ helmets have more features than cheaper ones, like more sensors to avoid false negatives and adjustable delay and adjustable sensitivity and mine has three other modes (regular auto mode, grinding mode, cutting mode). Eyes are pretty important and seeing what you're doing made a massive difference to me.

Probably you can make do with a cheap helmet and then if you find a big project coming up, use that to justify a purchase and factor it in. E.g. I used that trailer to justify a pipe bender and notcher. And right after the project finished a Dynasty 200 DX. To get the trailer custom made for me would have cost more than I put in including the tools.

I've used other projects to justify a horizontal adjustable bandsaw (great tool if you find yourself getting into metalwork), speed clamps, Triton multistands, assorted hand power tools, Swanson square, Starrett protractor, 1000 other tools.

I got the JD2 model 3. I've also got an old Bramley hydraulic bender lying around the side of the house that I wanted to use, but I've misplaced the dies (can't find them anywhere) and the jack needs bleeding. The JD2 is way better anyway. And apart from the trailer there are other things I can justify it for (roofrack, rear bumper, some other backyard stuff.

Re the mesh, that's not an easy job to start on. Your welder might not make it any easier. It took me a long while to become confident on thin wall SHS and I still have bad days. Welding mesh to SHS is also difficult. If you really care about a super nice job, another tip I picked up on here was to instead drill holes for the mesh in the SHS. I took some scrap angle about 2m long and drilled holes along it every 50mm and use that as a template. Clamp it to my SHS and drill the holes, then assemble the frame with the mesh poked in the holes then weld up the frame. It looks great, especially if you paint it so the paint fills the hole gaps (i.e. I drill 0.5mm more than the mesh diameter). Only problem is you need drainage holes in the frame because water can get in around the mesh holes. I mitre my frames with the bandsaw and once assembled with the mesh it's quite solid even before you weld. It just needs lots of measurement and calculation so that the holes are in the right place to fit to the mesh once assembled.

If you insist on welding mesh to SHS, be aware that the tiny end pieces of mesh won't have much material to dissipate heat. I found that they don't weld, don't weld until 'poof', they instantly disappear in a blob. Fit up is crucial and very quick, with sufficient heat and some whipping around from the parent material to 'wash' the mesh into the weld. If you point the arc directly at the mesh itself, watch out.

Originally Posted by abitfishy

Thanks. Well a cheap auto darkening might have to be the start unfortunately as one of the first things I was hoping to do is exactly that, make up some small fence type panels using something like 25mm square gal RHS and gal weld mesh.

Welding Gav mesh is even harder than welding non galv as the zinc galv splutters and burns and it's hard to get a good arc in the presence of the zinc oxide vapour (which is also not good for you) so the mesh will weld a bit easier with the galv removed using some acid.
If you can't employ Legions neat solution one way to help dissipate the heat is to clamp a copper block over and almost to the end of the mesh.
It works better if the copper block wraps around the mesh strand like in the photo shown below.
Just leave about 5-10 mm of the mesh strand poking through the copper block and that is usually enough to weld the mesh to the SHS

I found an old copper soldering iron head works pretty well - leave the handle on the head so that it is easier to handle

Originally Posted by abitfishy

With so many helmets what should I use? Are any of those 9-13 shade auto darkening helmets ok?

After using my old man's ancient(ish) Speedglas auto-darkening helmet for many years, I splashed out and bought a UniMIG helmet with big-arsed visor. While the Speedglas is always dark and has to be turned on, the UniMIG is always light and activates automatically when it sees a bright light. While it's slower to un-darken than the Speedglas, the larger viewing area and the ability to adjust the shade setting make it a better option. It is quite a bit heavier tho.

Getting back to the sparks, I'd like to add to the caution that was mentioned about grinding too. I learnt the hard way that with a 9" grinder the sparks can travel a long way and melt into glass. How do I know ? my old truck windscreen, lots of little black dots melted into the surface. You can start off grinding in the right direction then as your concentration focusses on the grinding...................Another thing I've done while grinding some steel on the ground is burnt a big hole in my jeans and set them on fire. I was so busy focussing on the grinding point I never noticed the big hole appearing in my jeans. I'd say the grinder has more potential to damage surfaces and cause fires than the welder does.

I don't think it's been mentioned yet - always check for a smoldering fire after you've finished welding. So turn off the welder, clean up, roll up the cables, give the dog a drink etc. but stay around for 15 mins to make sure nothing's going to burn down.

Fully agree with grinding sparks - they will embed into anything.