Thread: TIG & MMA Welders & Welding

Originally Posted by Metal Head

Hi Bez,

Thanks for the reply here and your email. Actually I just returned from pub where my partner and I had gone for a drink and have a go on the pokies. We won $15 which was enough to cover our drinks @ the pub and bring home a large pizza from Dominos. I suppose at 47 it should be a concern but when your partner is having chemo for cancer then losing your job isn't that big a problem. As the saying goes "as long as you have good health then nothing else matters".

In regard to your computer crash I can sympathize with you there as mine did exactly the same last night, so now I copy and paste as there maybe a time restriction on how long you have to write here - and being a one finger typist that is a bloody long time.

I will give you a call after Easter.

Cheers
David

P.S. Happy Easter to you and all the readers here.

Dave, well i hope you two have a great Easter. Go and buy a lottery ticket and I hope you win a Million dollars. Then you can have all of the pizza and beer you want and pay somone to weld for you. Good luck in future employment and I hope your partner makes a full recovery. You've definitely got the right attitude. All the best. Happy Easter to you too.
Regards
Bez.

Originally Posted by bez

Dave, well i hope you two have a great Easter. Go and buy a lottery ticket and I hope you win a Million dollars. Then you can have all of the pizza and beer you want and pay somone to weld for you. Good luck in future employment and I hope your partner makes a full recovery. You've definitely got the right attitude. All the best. Happy Easter to you too.
Regards
Bez.

Thanks for the kind words Bez. We did get a ticket yesterday and got the 6 numbers - but unfortunately they were on different lines. Never mind hopefully someone who needs it more than us got it.

I hope you and your family have a nice break.

Cheers
David

G'Day All,

Sounds like an excellent forum. My first post. Hope I do this right, as liitle experience in using these forums.....

A couple of questions that Bez might be able to answer:

I have a Transtig 150, and need a current control on the handpiece. Quoted $770 for just the slider control.... Not willing to spend that on an older transformer machine only worth about $1500.....

That would be just a variable resitor wouldn't it??? Surely I could improvise something if I knew the values and the wiring in the plug. I'd even consider a device such that it wasn't continuously variable - just a step-down to a previously adjusted lower current for finishing off a weld. Any help in this regard would be appeciated.

Also, those used inverter Kempis that you mentioned - what do they sell for, and surely they can be fitted with current control.

Hi Flyinsparxx, very sorry for the delay (I've been away). I think the potentiometer on the transtig 150 is 10k but not 100% sure. I'm not a fan of Cigweld machines and no offence but the 150 is average at best. It has a very low duty cycle on AC/HF but long before it reaches it's thermal cut out the arc "wanders" and the heat transfer to the job is minimal.I don't have one at work at the moment so I can't give you any accurate advice on wiring up a remote current control device but it wouldn't be too hi-tech. A new Kemppi AC/DC inveter sells for approx. $4000.00 plus GST and a second hand one can go for about $3000-$3500 depending on condition. They hold their value quite well. I've actually had customers who have upgraded to a 3 phase machine and sold their 240volt unit for more than they paid for it. Hope this helps
Happy to answer any future questions you may have
Regards
Bez.

Originally Posted by Flyinsparxx

G'Day All,

Sounds like an excellent forum. My first post. Hope I do this right, as liitle experience in using these forums.....

A couple of questions that Bez might be able to answer:

I have a Transtig 150, and need a current control on the handpiece. Quoted $770 for just the slider control.... Not willing to spend that on an older transformer machine only worth about $1500.....

That would be just a variable resitor wouldn't it??? Surely I could improvise something if I knew the values and the wiring in the plug. I'd even consider a device such that it wasn't continuously variable - just a step-down to a previously adjusted lower current for finishing off a weld. Any help in this regard would be appeciated.

Also, those used inverter Kempis that you mentioned - what do they sell for, and surely they can be fitted with current control.

Hi,

Would this link help?

http://www.cigweld.com.au/litCatalog.asp

If not you could always email them for an answer to your question(s):confused:.

Regards
David

Hi,

Only a few days ago i fixed a finger control (Amptrol) for a Lincoln tig for a friend, it was nothing more than a 10K pot and a micro switch, and this thing was worth some $500 odd dollars to replace! All that was needed was a new pot and to reattach the plug

At work i just called the Lincoln tech help guy in Sydney and got the wireing diagram that was needed to sort it out. Surely CIG would have a similar help line or service setup. Then all you need is a trip down to Dicksmith or Jaycar and a spare 1/2 hr.

Originally Posted by Mick C.

Hi,

Only a few days ago i fixed a finger control (Amptrol) for a Lincoln tig for a friend, it was nothing more than a 10K pot and a micro switch, and this thing was worth some $500 odd dollars to replace! All that was needed was a new pot and to reattach the plug

.

Basically, that's all they are. Same goes for a Foot Control. A shielded cable should be used on hand remotes attached to the torch.

Originally Posted by Metal Head

Hi,

Would this link help?

http://www.cigweld.com.au/litCatalog.asp

If not you could always email them for an answer to your question(s):confused:.

Regards
David

Look at the link and you'll see a classic example. The 135 Machine brochure states that it can weld Mild Steel, Stainless Steel and Aluminium,
all this with a duty cycle of 120 amps @ 15%. Their idea of a "weld" and mine are completely different. I know everyone has a budget but always buy the best you can afford. So many of these cheap welding machines end up not being used or in the bin.

G'Day Bez,
Good to see you here.
I use the welders at work and YES,
There are some Micro Switches in some difficult places for when the Boileys have their Welding Gloves on.
I also have to replace/Repair them.

I'm teaching my Son to weld.......while I teach myself.
Mig. Tig and Stick, Oxy comes later, when I can master it ... just joking

Some of the Welders are Doozies...........
Ramp up,
Run Time,
Current Limit
Need to be in IT to Program it.
I'm Learning to learn by my mistakes

Thanks for that fellas,

I figured it was as simple as that. Just sent an email to that CIG site asking for the wiring info.

Disappionted to hear Bez's assesment of my CIG machine..... I thought it would be adequate because it's such a well established brand name - so much for image.........

The machine's limitations doesn't excuse my fumbling attempts at TIG. I really enjoy oxy welding, and thought I would really take to TIG, but it's far more fiddly than I had expected (ie- touch the electrode and it's all over til you stop and fix it up). And can't regulate heat just by flicking the flame away or backing off.....

I've had really good results MIG welding aluminium, even 1.6mm, with my old and faithful MigoMag 195, and that's about as basic a machine as there can be. Just wish I could control the heat - start with a really hot burst, and end with minimum to finish off. Machines like the 3-phase Fronious are magic at this work, but I can't get 3-phase here, and can't find a 240v machine that'll do it......

I particularly like MIG for aluminium because full penetration is instant, and the HAZ is much smaller than TIG. Also, I often need to reach into the root of deep fillets, and even the best TIGs really don't like that situation.

Anyone know of a 240v machine that can do that sort of control??

If not, do these new inverter machines already work so much better at low heat that it's worth the move??

Just a further thought on that last post........

Since the heat control on those inverter machines is just a little dial, so probably it's just a pot behind there. So should be able to adapt it into a remote.......?

Actually all I really need is a 'flash start' - that would be spray arc heat for an instant, then back to the preset. It's the starts of MIG welds that are bad - that cold 'lump' right at the start until it gets hot enough, and then it's a really good bead, if you travel fast and steady. You can already finish off a bead with MIG aluminium really easily just by pausing for a second and then hit a final short fill and it will meld in nicely.

So I appeal to all you clever backshed ingineers to consider some way of providing such a 'flash start' for MIG welding aluminium.

I'm a fellow backshed ingineer but not clever enough for this one - don't want to blow that electronics board..... But willing to tinker and try - I think it could be a real boon for Al welding.

I guess this should really be the start of a new thread, but I'm not sure how to do that so I'll leave it here.

Yes all that is behind the front panel on an Inverter TIG is a lil pot (variable resistor) BUT the electronics needed between that pot and the welding electrode, is FAR from so simple... I'd be guessing that your welder has a BIG switch to change the welding current???? If i'm wrong and your welder has a pot of some sort you could simply remote mount it somewhere else, like in a foot pedle or hand control.

To get an idea of what is needed to build an "Inverter" style welder (not actually an inverter but most of the features) have a look at this site, I have most of this one built, and it is a bigger job than it looks! and also, as much as i hate to say it, this guys project has a number of bugs in it that have ment that my build has taken a LOT longer than expected.

http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a26316/TIG_Welder.html

The addition of a higher current setting on the mig could be done, but how easily i'm not so sure, i can see a lil need for a lil more wire feed perhaps with the high start current and burn back problems etc??? maybe????

Seems to me other than buying a newer TIG with the features you want, the info from CIG for the power controler is your best bet.

What thickness material are you talking about welding???

Originally Posted by Flyinsparxx

Thanks for that fellas,

I figured it was as simple as that. Just sent an email to that CIG site asking for the wiring info.

Disappionted to hear Bez's assesment of my CIG machine..... I thought it would be adequate because it's such a well established brand name - so much for image.........

The machine's limitations doesn't excuse my fumbling attempts at TIG. I really enjoy oxy welding, and thought I would really take to TIG, but it's far more fiddly than I had expected (ie- touch the electrode and it's all over til you stop and fix it up). And can't regulate heat just by flicking the flame away or backing off.....

I've had really good results MIG welding aluminium, even 1.6mm, with my old and faithful MigoMag 195, and that's about as basic a machine as there can be. Just wish I could control the heat - start with a really hot burst, and end with minimum to finish off. Machines like the 3-phase Fronious are magic at this work, but I can't get 3-phase here, and can't find a 240v machine that'll do it......

I particularly like MIG for aluminium because full penetration is instant, and the HAZ is much smaller than TIG. Also, I often need to reach into the root of deep fillets, and even the best TIGs really don't like that situation.

Anyone know of a 240v machine that can do that sort of control??

If not, do these new inverter machines already work so much better at low heat that it's worth the move??

Sorry, didn't want to put your CIGWELD machine down but they aren't what they used to be. Although your machine is Australian made, they are all imported from Italy, Malaysia or where ever they can obtain them at a reasonable price these days. They don't have any research and development or Australian imput any more. If some of their products were sold under their "real" manufacturers name no one would buy them because they'd think "I don't know that brand" but because it has CIGWELD on it, they think it's great. A lot of people think their products are still Aust. made.
I know TIG welding is a little tricky to pick up compared to oxy welding (it's a little more precise and the heat is more concentrated) but if you had someone instruct you how to do it properly, you would pick it up quite quickly and after that it's just practice, practice, practice. The most common things that I find people do, is try to add the filler wire too early and have an incorrect torch angle. Never put the filler wire near the workpiece until you have a molten pool and put the filler wire into the molten pool NOT under the arc. You'd probably be surprised how a "good" TIG welder can make a difference though. They have a much softer arc and the inverter machines seem to keep the weld pool stable while fluid whereas transformer machines tend to "push" the metal out of the weld pool.
Don't be fooled in thinking TIG welding doesn't give you the penetration of MIG either. The MIG process is seldomly allowed for use as a root run in any pressure fabrication and you'd be surprised in the amount of cold lapping (no penetration) at the start of aluminium mig welds and also the amount of porosity inside the weld itself. Quite often a perfectly good looking aluminium MIG weld when dissected can look like honeycomb.
The feature you talk of to give you a higher current at the start of a weld is already available on "good" 415Volt machines. It is called the Hot Start function and can be preset on a time or manually operated by the torch trigger. You select a higher current than the welding current you have selected (done as a percentage) so for example your welding current is 100amps (the more up market machines show this as well as wire speed and voltage) and your Hot Start current is 140%. Therefore when you press the trigger to start the weld, as long as you have it depressed, you have the 140 amps, when you release the trigger the machine drops back to the 100 amps. This is done in what is called 4T mode (which means you don't have to hold your hand on the trigger while you weld) when you want to complete the weld, a quick press of the trigger and release and the weld stops. You can also have what is called "Crater Fill" which, when the trigger is released the current dies down to a preset value (also as a percentage (eg 50% of the welding current), this allows time to fill the crater at the end of the weld, especially in Aluminium.
Unfortunately you wont find these features in 240 Volt machines in Australia because the market isn't big enough and 99% of the people here buy on price so the manufacturers concentrate on Industry where Performance is more important than price. Although the Inverter machines do weld much better than a conventional transformer machine it is not enough to warrant trading in your trusty old Migomag (good machine). It is the Pulse machines that make Aluminium Mig welding much better at lower currents because they give an artificial Spray Arc transfer. As transformer machines become more expensive to manufacture because of the raw materials and inverter machines become more common and less costly to make you will eventually see some of these features make their way into 240V models but it will be quite some time off, so don't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by Flyinsparxx

Just a further thought on that last post........

Since the heat control on those inverter machines is just a little dial, so probably it's just a pot behind there. So should be able to adapt it into a remote.......?

Actually all I really need is a 'flash start' - that would be spray arc heat for an instant, then back to the preset. It's the starts of MIG welds that are bad - that cold 'lump' right at the start until it gets hot enough, and then it's a really good bead, if you travel fast and steady. You can already finish off a bead with MIG aluminium really easily just by pausing for a second and then hit a final short fill and it will meld in nicely.

So I appeal to all you clever backshed ingineers to consider some way of providing such a 'flash start' for MIG welding aluminium.

I'm a fellow backshed ingineer but not clever enough for this one - don't want to blow that electronics board..... But willing to tinker and try - I think it could be a real boon for Al welding.

I guess this should really be the start of a new thread, but I'm not sure how to do that so I'll leave it here.

Your Migomag 195 has a Voltage selection switch so you wont be able to set up this type of feature on your machine. The other thing is with home made and modified machines. I'm yet to see one that works as well as a "good" brand machine. You could probably make or modify one that works as well as a cheap machine but you'd be better off buying a cheap machine, at least you know it'll work and has warranty but don't forget..it's cheap !
Quality welding machine Manufacturers have R & D depts. that spend millions of dollars annually testing different components,welding paremeters, wires and gases to give improved arc and welding results.
The only trick to welding Aluminium with a transformer machine is, increase the wire speed and voltage much higher than would be used on an equivalent thickness steel.......and go like the clappers. (Much faster travel speed)