Thread: TIG Welding Aluminium back for more Q's

I had a look at that welder on their website. That seems to be a good basic unit, few whistles and bells and it uses industry standard connections.
Comes with a 17 torch that takes standard consumables and a 5 year warranty. Could be a good choice IF you decide to sell. As you say though, getting a decent return on your welder would be the key.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

I had a look at that welder on their website. That seems to be a good basic unit, few whistles and bells and it uses industry standard connections.
Comes with a 17 torch that takes standard consumables and a 5 year warranty. Could be a good choice IF you decide to sell. As you say though, getting a decent return on your welder would be the key.

yeah thats the big question how much i would get back, im watching a couple used AC tig machines on ebay to get an idea what they are selling for second hand

i have a question i just found a listing on gumtree a person selling off cuts of various metals i seen a sheet of 409 stainless steel 2mm would this be much easier to weld than the aluminium 1.6mm? im not to worried about corrosion from the sea water as i will paint the SS, the only 316 the seller has is 6mm to thick for me

The short answer is no. Stainless is different to weld than ally. Stainless is welded with DC -, which you probably knew anyway, you need to keep your arc length short with stainless as small welds are preferred and this means a steady hand is a must. You can drag the cup though so this helps. The thinner filler wire used with stainless is also a bit harder to feed through your fingers, something I know you are still mastering.
409 stainless is designed for heat exposed components such as mufflers and exhaust systems. It doesn't polish well and forms a brownish oxide coating so you would not choose it for aesthetic applications. It is a ferritic stainless steel which basically means it contains less chromium and is magnetic, which most common, (austenitic), stainless steels are not. Filler material is usually 308 or 309L for non critical applications.
Heat control is important when welding stainless or else it is possible to burn the metal, leaving a really black weld that doesn't come off with pickling solutions. Stainless is also harder to fabricate with due to its work hardening characteristics, (think of how hard stainless is to drill if your drill bit is not in really good condition) and also your fit up needs to be of a high standard so as to avoid gaps which play havoc when you are trying to get a nice small weld. If the stainless is to be used in an aesthetic application, there is quite a regime involved in finishing it off nicely. I would estimate that on a typical job, you spend 1 hour welding and at least 3 to 4 hours fitting, fabricating and cleaning. If painting it, I imagine that an etch primer would be required. Practicing on some Mild Steel would be a good introduction to the technique required for stainless.
On the plus side, stainless plays well with ally in boats etc.
Ally is probably easier overall to work with, taking into account both welding and fabricating.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

The short answer is no. Stainless is different to weld than ally. Stainless is welded with DC -, which you probably knew anyway, you need to keep your arc length short with stainless as small welds are preferred and this means a steady hand is a must. You can drag the cup though so this helps. The thinner filler wire used with stainless is also a bit harder to feed through your fingers, something I know you are still mastering.
409 stainless is designed for heat exposed components such as mufflers and exhaust systems. It doesn't polish well and forms a brownish oxide coating so you would not choose it for aesthetic applications. It is a ferritic stainless steel which basically means it contains less chromium and is magnetic, which most common, (austenitic), stainless steels are not. Filler material is usually 308 or 309L for non critical applications.
Heat control is important when welding stainless or else it is possible to burn the metal, leaving a really black weld that doesn't come off with pickling solutions. Stainless is also harder to fabricate with due to its work hardening characteristics, (think of how hard stainless is to drill if your drill bit is not in really good condition) and also your fit up needs to be of a high standard so as to avoid gaps which play havoc when you are trying to get a nice small weld. If the stainless is to be used in an aesthetic application, there is quite a regime involved in finishing it off nicely. I would estimate that on a typical job, you spend 1 hour welding and at least 3 to 4 hours fitting, fabricating and cleaning. If painting it, I imagine that an etch primer would be required. Practicing on some Mild Steel would be a good introduction to the technique required for stainless.
On the plus side, stainless plays well with ally in boats etc.
Ally is probably easier overall to work with, taking into account both welding and fabricating.

thanks karl much appreciated as i would have gone out and bought a couple of stainless steel sheets tomorrow

well i ended up deciding to sell my welder if it does sell on ebay i will buy the everlast machine

Fair enough Gazza. Sounds like the trip to the shop today really shook your confidence in the welder.
Do yourself a favour this time round Gazza. Really research whatever welder you are looking at. I figure that you must have lost a reasonable bit of coin along the way with the welders that you have bought and sold shortly later because they didn't live up to expectations. For example, the Everlast seems to be a decent little machine but doesn't have pulse, up or down slope. That's not a problem as long as you are happy with that. I would hate to see you decide 6 months down the track that you wished you had these features. For the record, I dont use pulse on ally and have never felt under gunned, it's nice on stainless sometimes, but you can happily live without it. Just do your research and ask lots of questions.
There is a real wealth of experience on this forum and people are happy to help out.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

Fair enough Gazza. Sounds like the trip to the shop today really shook your confidence in the welder.
Do yourself a favour this time round Gazza. Really research whatever welder you are looking at. I figure that you must have lost a reasonable bit of coin along the way with the welders that you have bought and sold shortly later because they didn't live up to expectations. For example, the Everlast seems to be a decent little machine but doesn't have pulse, up or down slope. That's not a problem as long as you are happy with that. I would hate to see you decide 6 months down the track that you wished you had these features. For the record, I dont use pulse on ally and have never felt under gunned, it's nice on stainless sometimes, but you can happily live without it. Just do your research and ask lots of questions.
There is a real wealth of experience on this forum and people are happy to help out.

thanks, when i was picking my tig machine i had the two option the mishto or everlast i ended up going the mishto so after all this i think ill be happy with the basic everlast machine, im just a simple guy i like complicating things if i dont have to and i thought i would have gotten to know all the features on the mishto but to be honest i only ever remembered what the frequency does

No worries Gazza.
I looked up your welder on ebay. Nobody can say you are not honest in your description. Hope it sells.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

No worries Gazza.
I looked up your welder on ebay. Nobody can say you are not honest in your description. Hope it sells.

cheers karl, if it doesnt sell what i will do is set all the dials than remove the knobs on those i dont know how to use that way i cant bugger up the settings LOL

decided to keep the welder after sleeping on it over night, and i just purchased the WP-26 torch once converted to aussie $ it only cost $89 with UPS shipping

i guess im going to have to remove the knobs on the welder so i dont touch the settings a set and forget type thing, so im not tempted to touch the other settings and keep it simple

i bought this torch 200A WP 26 SR 26 Tig Torch Gun for TIG Welding 12 Feet-in Other Machinery from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

That works too.
I probably wouldn't pull the knobs off. Maybe put a bit of tape over them to stop them moving in the short term.
Having option with your settings isn't a bad thing - once you get the basics under control and are ready to experiment a bit. Don't forget that it doesn't hurt to scribble your settings down in a little notebook as a reference, while you are starting out. At Tafe, for every particular joint there is a section in your workbook to record your settings as a reference.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

That works too.
I probably wouldn't pull the knobs off. Maybe put a bit of tape over them to stop them moving in the short term.
Having option with your settings isn't a bad thing - once you get the basics under control and are ready to experiment a bit. Don't forget that it doesn't hurt to scribble your settings down in a little notebook as a reference, while you are starting out. At Tafe, for every particular joint there is a section in your workbook to record your settings as a reference.

i'll try that thanks karl, i'll use duct tape and check youtube for what each setting does i may even just limit my setting to the 3 knobs the everlast welder uses

In one of my earlier posts I gave a bit of a rundown on where to put your knobs to achieve a good basic start setting. After that, you really only need to worry about your polarity switch, (DC- or AC) and your amperage.
If you make a note in your notebook of where the settings should be, then even if you get a bit lost, you can come back to your basic setting and start over again.
I suspect most of your difficulties have probably been torch related, (wrong shroud size, gas leaks etc). Once you have a decent torch and a good size gas shroud for the work you are doing, I reckon things will come together a lot better.
Let us know how it goes.

Gazza,
Good move persisting with what you have - you're almost there. Karl has you well looked after there so I won't add much except to say that I think you're on the right track. Stay with the the aluminium for now. Don't pull the knobs off, just use a bit of liquid paper whiteout to put a reference dot where the settings work, then just check occasionally that the dots line up.
If by any chance you're thinking of re-making your live bait tank - consider this shape:
Capture.PNG
Bend the sheet smoothly around a large pipe, or whatever is available to get a consistent radius. The fit up of the base/top to the sides takes a little more care (but you've had practice now), but you do save a bit in weld length as there is only one vertical weld. Spend time getting your fit up right and put lots of tacks in before you weld.

The main reason I suggest this shape though is because of the fish themselves. If you have rounded corners (and set up the inlet and outlet to create a gentle circular current) the fish will be able to swim around in a more organised fashion. It might seem counter-intuitive, but you can cram more fish in and keep them healthier in this shape rather than a rectangular one of the same dimension.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

In one of my earlier posts I gave a bit of a rundown on where to put your knobs to achieve a good basic start setting. After that, you really only need to worry about your polarity switch, (DC- or AC) and your amperage.
If you make a note in your notebook of where the settings should be, then even if you get a bit lost, you can come back to your basic setting and start over again.
I suspect most of your difficulties have probably been torch related, (wrong shroud size, gas leaks etc). Once you have a decent torch and a good size gas shroud for the work you are doing, I reckon things will come together a lot better.
Let us know how it goes.

yeah mate thanks im going back to your settings but im having a bloody hard time with the welder lucky i didnt sell it, i ground down my first welds with a sanding disk as u guys suggested than i done a little 5-10mm weld than stopped as i pulled the filler rod to far away and i got shakey than i tried to light up the arc again and all im getting is a little spark no matter what i do ive gone over the earth, tighten the earth clamp bolt, ive moved the earth clamp to different spots, ive adjusted all the knobs nothing works all the guy done yesterday was just remove the cover than put it back on

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Gazza,
Good move persisting with what you have - you're almost there. Karl has you well looked after there so I won't add much except to say that I think you're on the right track. Stay with the the aluminium for now. Don't pull the knobs off, just use a bit of liquid paper whiteout to put a reference dot where the settings work, then just check occasionally that the dots line up.
If by any chance you're thinking of re-making your live bait tank - consider this shape:
Capture.PNG
Bend the sheet smoothly around a large pipe, or whatever is available to get a consistent radius. The fit up of the base/top to the sides takes a little more care (but you've had practice now), but you do save a bit in weld length as there is only one vertical weld. Spend time getting your fit up right and put lots of tacks in before you weld.

The main reason I suggest this shape though is because of the fish themselves. If you have rounded corners (and set up the inlet and outlet to create a gentle circular current) the fish will be able to swim around in a more organised fashion. It might seem counter-intuitive, but you can cram more fish in and keep them healthier in this shape rather than a rectangular one of the same dimension.

i would like to do a tank similar to this one but i dont have a sheet metal roller and i think i'd have a hard time rolling it around a pipe?