Thread: TIG welding helmets

I do find it frustrating and also question why it cost usually at least double US price to buy the same item here in Australia.

I would assume that Australian Importers would realise now more than ever that they have to be competitive although some I know just complain to the exporter to try and shut down any of their retailers sending to Aus.

I try to buy local first and support local business as much as I can afford, but I also shop around and sometimes use that to get a better deal locally. Sometimes I just don't have the money to buy locally and will import, as I figure, "well I wouldn't have bought it at all if I had to pay that much"

So the Australian importer of say a Miller DE Helmet imports from the US wholesaler for I assume $220 or less, based on I see them for about $270 retail over there and I assume that the retailer would have to make about $50 on a helmet but could be less I guess.
But how the hell do they get to $520 as I see them in the LWS around here.

I am considering the GST and import duties charges and that they sell less volume perhaps, but regardless who is doing the major markup it does seem excessive.

Back on topic:
I support my local WS with many items, consumables but I bought my Miller DE from weldfabulous for about $320 delivered. Took about 4 days to the local post office. Very happy with it. Good on low current TIG on X mode although you do have to have the sensitivity cranked up so you don't get flashed repeatedly. So below 50 amps DC and using the pedal, I run it on +8 sens but stilll get flashed the odd time.
I also have an Everlast Defender with the TIG module which is quite good also and a bit cheaper than the Miller. Good on low current DC TIG as well and general welding.

So Both helmets are good, the Miller is better but not not two or three times as good as the $$$ reflect. Happy to use either and I use the Defender at work and the Miller at home so I don't get it scratched

Originally Posted by Pete F

Yes, possibly not the front man to have when there's a angry mob sick of being shafted!

In keeping some semblance of balance, its often not the final retailer that's entirely to blame, at least as far a pricing, if not the typical Australian crap service. While in my experience the final retail mark-up IS much higher in Australia than is typical in the US, but more the point is the long line of "middle-men" that seems to be so typical of the distribution chain here in Australia. As mentioned, more often than not some of these people contribute sweet FA to the whole process, and in some cases don't even physically touch the goods on their way through! Nevertheless there goes another slice of the pie, all for securing the "Australian distribution" and shuffling a few pieces of paper!

I think Australia caught 'Middleman Disease' long ago and it certainly never leaves me with any good feelings. How many Australian websites do you see with prices clearly indicated? How many shops now for that matter do this? And then there are the websites solely devoted to directing you to a website of their choosing? These I detest the most...Leeches!

Pete

Just clarify when i say half the major manufacturers i'm talking about the welding industry only........ Sorry should have made that more clear...although i think it was pretty obvious that i was..... It would be more than half in my opinion and none of them would be on the rich list... We are still talking about welding right? I understand what your saying pete but in the welding industry people just aren't taking the as much as you might think... Example the price of a mig gun is cheaper or the same price from the major manufacturers ie binzel, tweco bernhard than it was nearly 20 years ago??? And repeating myself again these companies simply DO NOT pay the same price for their goods as their parent companies do... Yes pete the us dollar is good and has been for a while, ok i get it, fair enough. I've been there, ive seen it and your not going to convince me otherwise pete, i just know that they dont make as much margin as you think....Welding industry only!!! Just to make it clear
I dont want to discredit you in anyway pete and I think you offer great advice but this is my field of expertise as ive been in these companies. I was like you too thinking they were all just ripping the average joe off (this is not what they aim at anyway, big fabricators, mining, boat builders mainly) but its just not the case.

Johncar mate the price for a Miller DE helmet from miller/WIA to a distributor and a good one is more than $320...I have sold many of these helmets and never sold them for $320 even when selling in bulk 20+ units.....this is my point....and I know this for a fact....please trust me but if you really want i could probably get a miller price list to a good distributor to proove it..... As i've said in the past the public may have been taken for a ride but no its just simply not the case... Hats of to ya johncar though as there is no one in australia that will sell that helmet for the price you paid.

End transmission

I don't think you quite get it. As I said, it is not always the end retailer who is entirely to blame, as the CHAIN of people who are between him and the true source all contribute to the final cost. I'm not sure if it's true to say that's a unique Australian problem, but I know in the US it's generally much easier to order directly from the manufacturer, however IF there is a middle-man, the markups tend to be much thinner.

Of course I knew that you were talking about the welding industry, but, as per the example I gave with the jeans, something everyone here would be familiar with, it's the same story across pretty much any sector here in Australia. You admitted as much yourself, [Brand X] Australia buys from [Brand X] USA (or whoever the parent company is), and then sells it on to possibly the retailer, but also possibly yet another middleman, who distributes it to retailers in his state or region. ? ALL these people are trying to earn a living off bugger all volume, so the markups are comparatively high. The prices then HAVE to be high, so the volume drops still further, which drives up the prices more, and so it goes on. The lame excuses you initially quoted are simply nonsense. Again, not having a go at you, you are simply regurgitating the same rot that has been bandied about for years to try to convince people. For years it was "freight costs", but then people realised they could simply order directly from an overseas retailer and the freight costs weren't actually that high. Never mind the fact that a full 20 ft container from the US is only a few thousand dollars! So for an importer freight costs are actually bugger all on each item. Then it was the "weak Australian dollar". More BS, Next! There are a billion excuses, most simply crap. Another one that has emerged here, duty and GST. More BS I'm sorry to say; virtually all states of the US have a sales tax, some MORE than the GST here in Australia! Yet the prices are still so much cheaper there. Duty? Well I'd have to look up what the duty is on welding helmets, but I'll take a stab and say it's probably no more than 5%, if anything at all. The duty system in Australia was overhauled years ago (doesn't stop the retailers clinging to the BS excuse I notice) and now MANY items attract little or a token duty only. In fact the only items with any significant duty on them are when there is a local manufacturer of that type of product. I'm not aware of any local welding helmet manufacturers so I'll guess the duty is sweet FA! BTW if anyone want to look it up, the list of goods and what duty they attract is freely available, indeed if you do any large-scale importing make sure you check the list as I've been stung by duty previously when the some goods were mis-classified. They were good about it and fixed it up straight away, but if I hadn't checked and protested I would have been stung unnecessarily.

The bottom line, if you prefer a real life example, is that these helmets are available RETAIL in the US for roughly half what they retail for here. Again, just repeating what I previously wrote, it stands to reason then than the local retailers must surely get them for less than that. If they weren't they would be better off simply importing them precisely the same way we do. Incidentally, because of the absurd middle-guy chain that has grown as the "norm" in Australia that DOES in fact happen all too often; a retailer cannot buy stock for the same price as it's retailing for from overseas or even by large retailers here in Australia. But, assuming that's not the case in this example, these helmets have a 100% gross retail markup MINIMUM. What is it that I don't understand about that?

The bottom line, if you prefer a real life example, is that these helmets are available RETAIL in the US for roughly half what they retail for here. Again, just repeating what I previously wrote, it stands to reason then than the local retailers must surely get them for less than that. If they weren't they would be better off simply importing them precisely the same way we do. Incidentally, because of the absurd middle-guy chain that has grown as the "norm" in Australia that DOES in fact happen all too often; a retailer cannot buy stock for the same price as it's retailing for from overseas or even by large retailers here in Australia. But, assuming that's not the case in this example, these helmets have a 100% gross retail markup MINIMUM. What is it that I don't understand about that?



The local retailers DO NOT get these helmets for less than the RRP of the US!! this is my point.... I know that sounds stupid but you cannot by one of these helmets for less than $320 AU in australia..... Ring WIA and ask to buy 20+ of these helmets and see what price they offer...This is what you dont understand..... and neither do I really.... but I as guarantee you that Miller australia is not making much on these helmets either.... no where near 100% markup. I used to work for a major player and we used to get pricing from Europe, then talk to England and find out they were buying off the parent company for half what we were paying....no freight/duty included.... The answer from the parent company was "sell as much as they do and we'll give you that price"....but even on items that we sold more than anywhere in the world we were still paying more than England.... There answer for that was that they had to reduce the price to be competive in england and that competition did not exist in Oz...

I completely agree with just about everything you've said pete but if you want answers look at the parent companies not the australian ones.....

You can buy imported goods from major manufacturers all over ebay, look at dewalt for example....cheap as chips....but if lets say the big b tries to directly import them they will be told to buy through australia. But any local joe can find a big seller of dewalt in europe or the us and buy it for half the price...Its not dewalt australias fault they will complain again and again that this is happening but the parent company just doesnt care... They want the sales in the US.... See my point. Its BS but it increases their sales in the US!! There's a bloke near me that just buy all his gear from the US/Europe and sells it on ebay, doing quite nicely, but he just find the biggest reseller he can find and buys it off them, imports it, and sells it for half what you can buy it in oz.... I think dewalt, makita, bosch, metabo all ahte him very much

Importing direct has its issues too as you may no longer get support from the australian branch. Warranty is a sticky one, some things dont have certain australian compliances like "c" tick... I know it all sounds like BS but its not... its just unfortunate that we have to pay more.

Cheers its been a interesting conversation.

I don't quite know why you are continuing to try to argue about this as it is simply going around in circles as I shoot each of your excuses down and we finally get to the bottom line ... that I stated in my second post on the topic (which you said at the time was BS!), that the chain of people between the retailer and the source is what is largely responsible for the massive price differential between the US and Australia. I even told YOU that sometimes retailers can't buy their stock here for what it retails for either overseas or even in some cases by large retailers here in Australia. So how you can claim that I don't get it is beyond me

If, and when these situations come up it's up to the local retailers to tell their wholesalers to stick it and do something about the problem, because if they don't then, the buying public will take matters in to their own hands! I appreciate that sometimes the wholesalers will say "tough, take it or leave it". Well, the public are now simply saying to heck, and buying O/S is precisely what is happening in this very thread, how many people now have come up and said they bought their helmets from overseas?

Maybe I should remind you of what you initially said were the reasons for the price differential;

Pay large amounts of duty, freight , overheads to run the company, advertising etc all of this adds to the cost..

Just because the us dollar drops as well doesnt mean your going to see an instant change in prices... some people are still holding stock at the old price and cant afford to pass on the savings instantly. Also once you drop the price of something dramatically it gets very hard to change it back later if things change. In my experience a dramatic price drop of a product has always probed questions from consumers about quality. The product could be exactly the same but if it has a huge price drop people start saying its crappier or now made in china etc.

Sorry that things arent as cheap here for the same items but there are quite a few things involved that dictates the pricing in australia. America is in a lot of trouble financially and are trying to sell volume to keep people employed...Importing products from the US can be a cheaper option but is not supported by warranty by many of the major manufacturers in australia and you could be putting people in Oz out of a job too...

So:
Duty; BS, bugger all, if any!
Freight; BS, sweet FA if amortised over the wholesale shipment. Besides if directly importing the buyer pays FAR more per item than a container load.
Overheads; BS, the US retailers clearly have overheads too.
Advertising; BS, as above.
The US/AUS dollar; BS, that excuse was void years ago!
Product quality; BS, people are buying the same Miller helmets from the US and I don't hear one person claiming it must be from China since it's cheaper. You seem to presume, as so many retailers do, that the buying public are gullible morons.
America's financial position; BS, products have been cheaper there for as long as I can remember, so at LEAST the past 30 years!
Finally, putting people in Oz out of a job; TRUE. And good, because as I've constantly been saying through all this, a lot of people shouldn't even HAVE that job to begin with! These are the middle guys who typically add NOTHING to the whole process. Get them out of the equation and the prices will in many cases drop as a result.

What is happening now are the geographical barriers, and projectionist markets that existed until recently aren't dissolving, they've been blown out of the water! Australia has long been a cash cow of many multi-national corporations, as I said (and you said was BS, remember?) the consumer here has always been charged "what the market can bear" ie the price has been set not by the competition, but by what could be fleeced out of people. Those days are over (and you said was BS), now the "competitor" may be the guy down the road as has always been the case, but is more likely to be some virtual store on the other side of the planet! Expect that to absolutely explode within the next few years. Remember, simply by virtue of the fact we participate in this BB means we are all, by default, somewhat computer savy. On the other hand the population as a whole typically hasn't yet fully adjusted to buying goods on line. However within the next few years a whole new generation is coming through that have ALWAYS had computers in their lives and think nothing of buying goods on line. There are no geographical barriers any more, and if retailers (and those right through the chain to the manufacturer) don't quite get that, then expect to see a whole pile more local businesses go belly up!

As far as the warranty, as I pointed out very early on in this thread, I could afford to actually buy TWO of the Miller helmets and keep one as a spare in case the other failed, and STILL be better off financially Furthermore, in my experience, the local "warranty service" of so many products is nothing short of disgusting. It seems the norm is to initially blame the customer, then try to weasel out of the claim, then if all else fails begrudgingly fix it! No thanks, I'll take the risk and if my helmet fails pay for it to be shipped back to the US for repair, where they actually understand what customer service is all about.

Hopefully we've finally put this to bed now. As I said all along, it's not always the fault of the individual (particularly small) retailer here in Australia (though sometimes it is), but the whole retail chain right from the top. I expect this all to undergo a pretty large change over the next few years, and maybe a few companies who have had it too good for too long will be forced to do the right thing as they should have. We'll see I guess. The bottom line is that it's NOT "unfortunate we have to pay more', because in 99.99% of cases we DON'T have to pay more (or nothing like the 100% that's been the case anyway), and increasingly people WON'T pay more. Bring on Weldfabulous!!

Ur right we are going around in circles... In my initial i offered reasons why prices aren't the same. Yes the AUS vs US dollar is good now and thats why prices have been coming down, I didnt bother with stating this as it is quite obvious if you have bought anything to do with welding in the past 10 years. Your overheads for tokentools would be a 10th of miller australia, you import to ebay.... The fact that you dont understand why miller and the like has a supply chain is because tokentools doesn't need one, just ebay. You sell to the hobby/light fab market and thats where it stops. Supply chain are essential and yes that can be at the cost of the average joe consumer but not as much as you seem to think.

I hope you get and account with Miller/WIA, Cigweld, fronius (good luck), binzel, lincoln ahh lets just say all of em and then you will see how much margin the average weldshop puts on.... f..all. Then go work for these companies and see how much they add to their cost.....again.... not much on high moving items....but then you seem to know that already...

I think we should just leave it, as you think i dont get it and i dont think you get it either so whats the point. We'll just continue to try to shoot each other down in attempt to achieve what??? Im not going to agree with you and your certainly not going to agree with me. All good from my side and i understand your frustrations pete, i worked for some of these companies and left for the same frustrations . I think you fellas at tokentools must really have done your homework on your machines as you appear on here to have built a pretty good name for yourselves. Keep up the good work, and i know i get a bit POed/angry with people blaming the australian companies for this problem but i think u'll find its the parent companies that a f$%king it up for all of us.. Sorry if i sound abusive but it does me off to that the blokes i used to work with get the blame.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Rappy77

Pete


Johncar mate the price for a Miller DE helmet from miller/WIA to a distributor and a good one is more than $320...I have sold many of these helmets and never sold them for $320 even when selling in bulk 20+ units.....this is my point....and I know this for a fact....please trust me but if you really want i could probably get a miller price list to a good distributor to proove it..... As i've said in the past the public may have been taken for a ride but no its just simply not the case... Hats of to ya johncar though as there is no one in australia that will sell that helmet for the price you paid.

End transmission

Hi Rappy77, yeah I don't doubt that as it is highly likely that someone like Weldfabulous get a better discount that the Australian importer if they have higher volume and a better arrangement with the supplier.
I am not privi to the figures of course but I would be prepared to pay more to buy one here as I do think our standard of living here, higher wages, supporting local jobs, warranty and other factors is probably better and would like nothing better than to support the local store. Most things I buy local.
I know that nobody could sell one here for $320 but I would perhaps be prepared to pay 50% more about say $450 for the same thing, I could understand that. But 100%+ price difference puts them out of my sensible affordability range, particularly as I am not earning my living from welding. The cheapest local WS I saw had them at $520 even after I bought a heap of other stuff from them.
To buy OS in this case was just an option for me to buy a good helmet that I wouldn't have bought locally anyway.

I don't know what the answer is, but the world of retail is quickly changing and maybe we no longer need importers, distributers, and whoever else is in the middle chain.
Maybe local Welding Suppliers should have the same freedom to buy directly and pass on the savings. Probably a stupid ignorant statement but it does seem unfair that we have to perhaps pay for 4 to 5 different lots of handling and mark up, not to mention Govt taxes/duties etc before we buy a product and I think that most of the employment is in the manufacturing and retail parts and I will almost bet that those two entities make the least on the item. We shouldn't really have to pay for much more than three steps. Manufacturer/Supplier - Importer/Distributer - Retailer. Better still the Importer/Distributer can be the retailer or visa versa. I know of some retailers that are also the importer which obviously works well for them.

I think we will see more and more on line retailers both locally like Token Tools and Everlast and OS like Weldfabulous and we can debate the wrongs and rights all day but it's happening and the buying public are making their choices.

And not long ago I did the right thing I suppose with a bit of equipment I needed a part for. Ordered through the Aust distributor via the retail store.
Days, weeks went by and no part. Multiple enquiries but they run out of other excuses and say none in Aust, have to order in from the US which took nearly 2 months to arrive and then I had to drive to the store to pick up.
Could have ordered the thing from a US retailer and had it here to my door in 5 days or even three for half what they charged me locally.
When I asked why it took so long they just said that's how long it takes in their system and they have to wait till they have a minimum order quantity.
Well their system is not giving good service and having choices will change things for sure.

Absolutely spot on with all you said John, there's no point is saying "oh yes but if you buy locally you get local service", when more often than not there isn't any! I have a situation at the moment where I want to buy a replacement very high end bicycle frame. The local retailer (again) wants 100% more than it costs OS including airfreight out to me. But here's the rub. The "distributor" wants me to submit an order, pay for it in full, then wait months until he has enough orders to buy space in a container (so he can make more profit by not air freighting them). Oh, but then I'd get "local warranty" right? Nope! Any warranty is sent back to France where they're made. So what precisely is the "distributor" doing for his thousands (they're very expensive bikes) on this frame? Ans. = sweet FA!!

Hey john

I dont know why these guys are trying to get you to pay so much for these helmets really.... Hell u dont have to you can import them but im saying that its not the distributor all the time that is to blame for this. Most WS stores get direct from the manufacturer so there is no middle man so to speak so i dont whos telling people that there someone in between, theres not. But the manufacturer is Miller and the importer is Miller australia or WIA and WS buy it of them and sell it to you. I cant speak for all WS stores around australia but the buy price for that helmet is way above what you can import it for. So if you want to put weldshops out of business then import shizt loads and sell them on ebay... Hell you'll put a fair dint in Miller australia too and thats your right, people are doing it now hence dewalt and the like. At the end of the day most of the time in my experience its not the WS shop ripping you off (granted some are) its Miller in the US!

We can all import hell i can probably buy container loads of Jasic, Everlast, Tokentool, Miller, lincoln etc and if you think the chinese give you "exclusive rights" wait till they get a huge order of machines and see them drop you like a hot spud. The chinese are ruthless in my dealings with them and exclusive australian rights to a product mean nothing. Case changes, different factory and presto everyones out of a job, you too pete. If all the companies decide to sell direct to the public from the floor of manufacturing then no ones safe. Service will be shizt but no one care because it so cheap we'll just fn buy another one.....whooppee. Sounds great....

I dont mind that you (john) are smart enough to shop around outside the OZ market and get the best price i've ever seen on a DE helmet (in oz) but bear in mind that you probably shouldn't blame your loacl bloke or miller oz. If they dont do something about this soon it'll all be gone, and you'll have nothing left but inferior chinese crap left to play with.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Rappy77

Most WS stores get direct from the manufacturer so there is no middle man so to speak so i dont whos telling people that there someone in between, theres not. But the manufacturer is Miller and the importer is Miller australia ...

Well which is it then? On the one hand you say there is no middle man, then in the very next sentence say that Miller USA sell to Miller Australia who is the importer. Obviously then Miller Australia is the middle men aren't they You even said in a previous post that Miller USA charges Miller Australia more! It doesn't matter that they're owned by the same entity, that is immaterial to the final consumer, all they see is the final price!

As far as "exclusive rights", nice scare campaign, but this is the root cause of the whole problem!! It's BECAUSE of the "exclusive rights" BS that this whole nonsense has been allowed to develop! Why should any imported be given "exclusive rights"? Nice gig if you can get it, but it clearly prevents any competition in that market place, hence why retailers can charge "what the market can bear"! ie retail speak for "we can shaft you for whatever we like and if you don't like it, tough because our "exclusive rights" mean there's no competition ... and don't even try contacting the company because if they've done their job properly nobody overseas will be allowed to sell to you either. Don't like it? Tough sh%t!"

As far as the ##### service, please tell me you're joking? The typical "service" in Australia is a joke. Hang on, I'm just off to Bunnings to ask the 15 year old kid there for advice on what size bearers I should use for the deck I'm building. Most of the time they can't even tell customers where stuff is in the store!

Originally Posted by Pete F

Well which is it then? On the one hand you say there is no middle man, then in the very next sentence say that Miller USA sell to Miller Australia who is the importer. Obviously then Miller Australia is the middle men aren't they You even said in a previous post that Miller USA charges Miller Australia more! It doesn't matter that they're owned by the same entity, that is immaterial to the final consumer, all they see is the final price!

As far as "exclusive rights", nice scare campaign, but this is the root cause of the whole problem!! It's BECAUSE of the "exclusive rights" BS that this whole nonsense has been allowed to develop! Why should any imported be given "exclusive rights"? Nice gig if you can get it, but it clearly prevents any competition in that market place, hence why retailers can charge "what the market can bear"! ie retail speak for "we can shaft you for whatever we like and if you don't like it, tough because our "exclusive rights" mean there's no competition ... and don't even try contacting the company because if they've done their job properly nobody overseas will be allowed to sell to you either. Don't like it? Tough sh%t!"

As far as the ##### service, please tell me you're joking? The typical "service" in Australia is a joke. Hang on, I'm just off to Bunnings to ask the 15 year old kid there for advice on what size bearers I should use for the deck I'm building. Most of the time they can't even tell customers where stuff is in the store!

Please tell me this is a joke right??? If you are in the industry then you have little to no idea of how it operates... Hell even importers like unimig/jasic have exclusive rights.... they all do, and this has little to nothing to do with price. An as for a middle man??? are you on about so then big companies are surposed to have no representation in australia other than a local distributor??? What a joke....no big companies deal like this and you know it! As for service, this is where your even more wrong than ever, what service do tokentools offer?? Ever flown down to anywhere else in oz just because the customer isnt happy?? Ever go and fix someone problems at midnight because they need production to continue. I have... so please dont preach to me about how good your fn service is.... When it comes down to it mate the majors have better service than anyone because they have a dealer network, thats what its for!!.... spare parts on the other hand can be a problem. This is what big companies expect of a supplier and sometimes shizt ive even done it for the little guys. Your narrow minded, end user, ebay company is not what where dealing with here, this is a lot bigger industry than you know/see and why it dictates it pricing as such.

Mate i tried to leave it go.... but you just dont have any experience in this an i can't stand people that dont know what they are talking about preaching like this. I was trying to be civil by complementing token and the service you offer for small end user but your just way off the ball with this one... Token maybe doing well but you will never get the volume of welding equipment that the majors do and yes sometimes the little guys get left behind....This is where token belongs to pick up the slack that the majors just cant reach even with their dealer network..... And as i've said before hats of to you guys for filling that void.

Ah I'm done with this........

Mate here's the deal, as it appears you have a problem with basic comprehension. I have never said that exclusive rights aren't "the norm", in SOME cases they are, but that doesn't mean it's right, and it leads to basically no competition. Great for the distributor, sucks for the poor schmuck paying for final product. Why SHOULD the rights be EXCLUSIVE?

I have absolutely no idea you're talking about re the middleman comment. On the one hand you say Miller has no middle man, then you say they DO have a middleman, then they don't, now they do .. and how could I think companies could exist in Australia with just a local distributor (despite thousands of companies doing just that). Do ... don't... do ....don't ... I'm confused! Please, which is it. Do Miller have an Australian distributor who buys product from the US parent or not?

I'm really pleased you've flown down Timbuktu at midnight to fix somebody's welding helmet, good for you. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for Brad to remember if the Whitworth bolts are in isle 12 or isle 13 ... that's after I explained to him what a Whitworth bolt was.

Fianally, does TokenTools have to do with all this? I am not TokenTools, but I HAVE bought a couple of welders from him. Nice guy ... good service! Didn't fly down at midnight though. I presume your little rant is because you think I'm him and a competitor who is threatening the cosy little arrangement that has been going on for eternity. Big mutinationals ripping people off by the truck load and it's now all rather inconveniently unravelling due to real competition. Sorry to disappoint you but he is him and I am me; not the same person ... at least I don't think so!

If you think I'm taking the , well I am, so let's all lighten up a wee bit. I think it's great you're sticking up for your mates in the companies you used to work for. Very Australian of you. You entered this whole discussion with the rather bizarre statement that we shouldn't expect a local retailer to sell for the same price as in the US. Nobody here was expecting that! You then tried the usual retailer BS bag of tricks (it's the dollar ... no wait it's the freight ... no wait ....), but in this case you've been called on it and the lame excuses that have been dished out by companies for all these years have been shown for what they are; BS. Meanwhile the retailers and those in the chain are sticking it up the customers and have been forever. You know it. I know it. We ALL know it. Selling to businesses and government departments who generally won't bitch too much about the price and DEFINITELY won't buy overseas. Wouldn't want to upset those exclusive rights now would we

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

Mate here's the deal, as it appears you have a problem with basic comprehension. I have never said that exclusive rights aren't "the norm", in SOME cases they are, but that doesn't mean it's right, and it leads to basically no competition. Great for the distributor, sucks for the poor schmuck paying for final product. Why SHOULD the rights be EXCLUSIVE?

I have absolutely no idea you're talking about re the middleman comment. On the one hand you say Miller has no middle man, then you say they DO have a middleman, then they don't, now they do .. and how could I think companies could exist in Australia with just a local distributor (despite thousands of companies doing just that). Do ... don't... do ....don't ... I'm confused! Please, which is it. Do Miller have an Australian distributor who buys product from the US parent or not?

I'm really pleased you've flown down Timbuktu at midnight to fix somebody's welding helmet, good for you. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for Brad to remember if the Whitworth bolts are in isle 12 or isle 13 ... that's after I explained to him what a Whitworth bolt was.

Fianally, does TokenTools have to do with all this? I am not TokenTools, but I HAVE bought a couple of welders from him. Nice guy ... good service! Didn't fly down at midnight though. I presume your little rant is because you think I'm him and a competitor who is threatening the cosy little arrangement that has been going on for eternity. Big mutinationals ripping people off by the truck load and it's now all rather inconveniently unravelling due to real competition. Sorry to disappoint you but he is him and I am me; not the same person ... at least I don't think so!

If you think I'm taking the , well I am, so let's all lighten up a wee bit. I think it's great you're sticking up for your mates in the companies you used to work for. Very Australian of you. You entered this whole discussion with the rather bizarre statement that we shouldn't expect a local retailer to sell for the same price as in the US. Nobody here was expecting that! You then tried the usual retailer BS bag of tricks (it's the dollar ... no wait it's the freight ... no wait ....), but in this case you've been called on it and the lame excuses that have been dished out by companies for all these years have been shown for what they are; BS. Meanwhile the retailers and those in the chain are sticking it up the customers and have been forever. You know it. I know it. We ALL know it. Selling to businesses and government departments who generally won't bitch too much about the price and DEFINITELY won't buy overseas. Wouldn't want to upset those exclusive rights now would we

Pete

Hahahaha pete ok this has been getting a little out of control.... I did think u worked at token so for that .... i humbly apologise...my bad. Alright in my first reply i said alot of things believe or not all play a part in pricing whether you think its BS or not, although i understand why you think it is, as it not the major factor... I think you are definately taking the with the middle man comment as you know what I mean . No big corporation as direct to distributor, it just doesnt happen. There are reasons for this which if you want i'll go through... Exclusive rights means that no one other than token, unimig, everlast, cigweld, all of them can bring in a machine with that logo on it. Everyone has it... apart from utter crap on ebay that mysterious vanishing companies sell. Im not a retailer as i've said i work in an advising capacity but Im am f#$%king telling you that there is no way on gods green earth that any end user (1 helmet sale) in australia from any distributor/ direct from WIA can buy a DE helmet for $320. Not possible..... and trust me mate 100+ helmets you will still not get this price (inc GST, ex maybe?? if you screwed WIA hard). If you think its a good deal then seriously guys get together and start importing them. Hell i'm in, although i may have a few conflicts of interest there.... Seriously you could make a bit of money if you make the right connections with this and many other products. I have a big customer you would all know (sorry no names) who imports there own machinery direct from singapore.... Miller 250 syncrowave ...... guess???......$1050.00 landed! Metabo 9 inch angle grinder by the pallet................$105 landed. You really think that tool companies are taking the that much too?? I dont get it either, and as i say i never have, but they are being crucified by their own parent companies who are allowing this....

Sorry pete for getting off at you and yeah i may have offered originally a few of the standard excuses....(i'm probaly really not supposed to be telling you this )....which still do have an influence but seriously this is just happening everywhere. The prices in the past were too expensive but it was the parent companies that dictated that too.... Australia is just the shizt little island that no one cares about .......

Thanks pete i do appreciate you input and apologise to you....but its a sad day for these companies at the moment and the people that will suffer arent the ones that did it.

Cheers Rappy