Thread: TIG welding helmets

Talking of exclusive rights, and sorry a bit off topic but relevant to the discussion, hey I have been waiting for the Fronius guys to organise a demo of their TPS 2700 for over a month now and it just isn''t happening so I assume that they don't want my money. Just too small a customer maybe, I don't know but it's dragging on a bit, I keep getting "maybe next week, I will phone you". The Kemppi rep is no better, hasn't even got back to me at all after a few phone calls.
The lady on the phone says "hasn't he got back to you yet, I'll chase him up" but still nothing after a week and a half and I am sure that my phone works.

If I can't get them to sell me one of their MIGs it makes me nervous what the after sales service will be like.

Maybe they are not interested in home DIY users. I want to build a boat so I want a good MIG, been looking second hand for a while but nothing much locally has come up so far and I didn't want to buy without seeing and perhaps testing.

Getting frustrating though and possibly a good case for someone like me to try and just bypass the Australian Rep. although I probably can't in the the cases above. They have it, I don't, so I just have to wait.

Anyway not to fuel this any further, it would be nice just to have a perfect world.

Back on Topic I am very happy with my two helmets for TIG. One is Miller, not sure where it is made but is very good. Other one is Everlast, MIC for about a third the Miller local price but still a good helmet, not as good as the Miller but quite good and value for money. Had an issue with the first Everlast helmet module, being a bit unstable on TIG. Contacted Everlast Aust and had a more suitable temporary replacement the next day and a permanent one in a few days, all express post no charge, couldn't ask for better really.

It seems that the smaller online sellers/importers are perhaps looking after the niche of the market where I live at least and because of this experience it gets harder to remain loyal to the bigger companies but I will give them a few more chances yet because I do believe we need to support them. Just hope that they return the favour.

Pete ever need help on product just ask mate and i'll find the right info from the guys that know, namely me but i know a couple (of hundred or so) better than me too....hahahah. It is a great industry if you know the right people but if you dont then you just end up with the same old crud... Young kids get no help and some of em dont want it anyway.... I can certainly understand the frustrations we all face when trying to find someone that knows what they are talking about...

Johncar persist with the Kemppi mate its alot cheaper than the TPS2700 and just as good in my opinon.. (i assume the kemppi 3000 compact?? or the new fastmig pulse is awesome with the supersnake 10-25m push pull, boatbuilding by any chance??). Fronius is a sweet machine too, but they limit their distributors. Hell i could probably put you on to the boss of kemppi but im not sure chris would like that much... hahaha name dropping!!! What a wanaker... please dont mention my tag if you do ring him he may be smart enough to work it out..... and go easy on alison (receptionist) shes a top chick .... as i say fellas i know alot of people in this industry and if you ever need help then just ask....dont let me being in melbourne discourage you either as i know a few around oz too. Feel free to msg me privately john if you need anything....

Cheers

Sorry just read your post in full and it says you wanna build a boat ....Sorry...good guess though....hahaha... educated guess maybe...TPS2700.... the "boatbuilders choice" ....should be the kemppi 3000 too though.

Yes thanks Rappy77,

Nice of you to offer help. I would love the Fronius based on it's reputation but the $$ are a bit scary.
In the Kemppi range I was just considering a KM400 basic being more affordable at about half the price, I know it's not pulse but thought it might do the job OK. Might just have to work on my technique and settings a little more though.

I will see how I go this week and if no action from them I may send you a PM if that's OK. You may be able to advise on who to best speak to for sound advice and some action.

Yeah anytime mate but kemppi 3000 compact is the way to go. Dont get me wrong i love the KM400 but vertical up/downs bit tricky... Kemppi 3000 its likes welding normally on verticals mate....... so sweet just straight up no christmas tree, triangle type weave BS....just straight up/down....fn awesome and price wise no all that different to the fastmig, bit more but not break the budget more if your considering a TPS2700... Pulse is the way to go, dont know if you've ever used one but just so much better, not like pulse on a tig where if your good enough you can do without it. Let me know how you go though i'll see what i can do... dont know the rep in your area but i know his sales manager...

Originally Posted by johncar

Talking of exclusive rights, and sorry a bit off topic but relevant to the discussion, hey I have been waiting for the Fronius guys to organise a demo of their TPS 2700 for over a month now and it just isn''t happening so I assume that they don't want my money. Just too small a customer maybe, I don't know but it's dragging on a bit, I keep getting "maybe next week, I will phone you". The Kemppi rep is no better, hasn't even got back to me at all after a few phone calls.
The lady on the phone says "hasn't he got back to you yet, I'll chase him up" but still nothing after a week and a half and I am sure that my phone works.

If I can't get them to sell me one of their MIGs it makes me nervous what the after sales service will be like.

Maybe they are not interested in home DIY users. I want to build a boat so I want a good MIG, been looking second hand for a while but nothing much locally has come up so far and I didn't want to buy without seeing and perhaps testing.

Getting frustrating though and possibly a good case for someone like me to try and just bypass the Australian Rep. although I probably can't in the the cases above. They have it, I don't, so I just have to wait.

I hear your frustrations John, having been there many times myself. While there are occasions of great service, typically the apathy in the Australian retail industry is dreadful.

Anyway, hopefully you can convince them to go to the trouble to sell you an expensive welder As a matter of interest, roughly what sort of money are you looking at for the 2700? It looks like a nice welder, but I'm guessing quite expensive?

Pete

OK thanks Rappy, Sounds like I should have asked you first.
So many confusing statements from suppliers and others. Just about done the deal on the KM400 as the guy at LWS up here told me it would be good. Didn't mention the 3000 compact. And when I asked about Pulse the common comment seems "you don't need Pulse" Maybe they just assume that a home user wont spend the extra cash or they just want to sell what they have in stock. Anyway that is what I wanted to talk to the Rep about. I am sure I will be able to work it out with them to change units.

Pete F
Yeah thanks, it seems strange that it's so hard to get something happening.
The TPS 2700 is about $11,000 incl GST in its basic form Power Supply, Basic Gun and cables. It just goes up from there

Originally Posted by johncar

OK thanks Rappy, Sounds like I should have asked you first.
So many confusing statements from suppliers and others. Just about done the deal on the KM400 as the guy at LWS up here told me it would be good. Didn't mention the 3000 compact. And when I asked about Pulse the common comment seems "you don't need Pulse" Maybe they just assume that a home user wont spend the extra cash or they just want to sell what they have in stock. Anyway that is what I wanted to talk to the Rep about. I am sure I will be able to work it out with them to change units.

Pete F
Yeah thanks, it seems strange that it's so hard to get something happening.
The TPS 2700 is about $11,000 incl GST in its basic form Power Supply, Basic Gun and cables. It just goes up from there

I use a 2700 Fronius everyday on aluminium.... Very good machine. but $11,000
come on.
btw. heres my TIG helmutt

Originally Posted by ben@SS&A

I use a 2700 Fronius everyday on aluminium.... Very good machine. but $11,000
come on.

Does anyone know where to find a cheaper new Fronius TPS 2700 than $11,000 incl GST?
Also a good second hand would do If I could verify the condition and history of the machine.

Originally Posted by johncar

Does anyone know where to find a cheaper new Fronius TPS 2700 than $11,000 incl GST?
Also a good second hand would do If I could verify the condition and history of the machine.

Hi John,

Smenco allow dealer commission of 35%, any haggling comes out of this price so if you can get your hands on the latest list price it would indicate minimum dealer buy price for a new machine by subtracting 35% hence indicating your ball park range.

If you are patient keep an eye out on Grays auctions for business liquidations, Fronius gear shows up every now and again.

Also a good tip is to play several dealers against each other, if they know you are keen they will be more likely to compete for your business. If you get no result because they are lazy then definately give a call to Smenco in Melbourne and let them know you will walk, they most certainly will bend over to accomodate you.

Regards
John

Hey Pete,

I have a question regarding suitable markup. If a helmet cost $360 AUD landed, what would be a suitable retail price to sell it at in Australia? Assuming it sells in the USA for $360 and my dealer discount plus freight and GST mean I get it at the same price as USA retail once all costs are factored in.

Assume warranty failure rate is 0.2%
Damaged stock accounts for 0.15%
Demo stock accounts for 3%
You have exclusive rights for distribution.

I thought it may be interesting to approach this discussion from the other end, that is to add the markup taking into account real world trading conditions.

Regards
John

Originally Posted by Pete F

No worries mate.

No need to explain to me the reasons as I spent 6 1/2 loooong years at university studying them already I'm well aware what "exclusive distribution" means, and I can assure you that is not the case in very many industries. Indeed the standard arrangement with a manufacturer is to go to them and say "We'll import xx number of widgets if you give us exclusive" or alternatively after having approached a manufacturer they may offer exclusive if the distributor/retailer buys xxx units. So long as the distributor can move that many units (and it can be a gamble if it's something new), it can be a great arrangement for them as clearly nobody else can bring in the widget. For the customer it CAN be good from the point of view that there's now a local representative for the widget, but once it becomes a mature product it's typically very bad for them since there's no competition. This lack of competition can not only affect price, but also service. While there can be caveats associated with the exclusive, it can also allow the distributor to get lazy.

Again, the bottom line, it doesn't matter where in the chain the price is being inflated, the final customer doesn't know or care, all they see is the price tag. As I've now said repeatedly, if retailers don't stop dishing out the "standard excuses" you agreed get dispensed and get on top of the situation as best they can, then their days are numbered. Borders? Gone. Angus and Robertson? Gone. Countless other small retailers would be on extremely shaky ground right now, never mind in the future. As much as I buy so much of my gear overseas or through online, I for one would prefer to walk in to a store, speak to knowledgeable staff, and walk out with the correct product for my needs without any need to wait. However more often than not that doesn't happen, and in some cases is getting even worse! When I was a kid there were countless small hardware stores owned and staffed by knowledgeable people who actually knew hardware. Now? Well I can't say it's name, but think of a retail hardware con-job that makes people believe they're getting a bargain when in fact the only reason some things are cheap is because they import Chinese crap by the container load, and screw local distributors until they go broke. I see the crap they're selling in China and know the wholesale prices; they're no bargain I assure you!!! Knowledgeable staff? The kid that's serving still giggles when he successfully ties his shoe-laces, a task he only learnt the previous week. THAT'S all too common these days, and closer to the topic I can think of at least 3 welding supplies companies I go to that wouldn't know a welding rod from a fishing rod; "Dunno mate, what's the stock number?" is the mantra of the day.

Anyway, I've said my piece on the topic, so no need to go on. It sure are interesting times in which we live!

Pete

My answer John? My answer would be, you need to go back one step further and ask why are you paying A$360 for your stock?

Pete

Hi Pete,

I am paying $360AUD because It is a speedglas helmet, that is the cost to put it onto a shelf in the warehouse.

The comparative USD cost was in relation to a discounted sell price from a USA discount welding supplier.

Regards
John

Originally Posted by welding

I am paying $360AUD because It is a speedglas helmet, that is the cost to put it onto a shelf in the warehouse.

Hey John, I say again, why are you paying $360 for your stock?

Clearly this is a rhetorical question, and as loaded as yours to me. My point being that the traditional way of doing business in Australia is either to say my costs are $xxx, therefore I will sell this for $yyyy. That approach is history, along with a lot of the businesses that followed it! Alternatively it's been "what the market will bear", and that approach should never have been here to begin with.

Take a look at any successful contemporary business and you'll see the opposite approach ie "We NEED to sell this for $yyyy, now how do we achieve a cost of $xxxx". That's modern retail John, not my idea, that's just the way it works these days and it's a tall order for a small business to achieve because they typically just don't have the buying power. BUT it's what MUST be done, because in this day and age I can assure you, as you know full well, the customer will increasingly only pay $yyyy. People know how much they can buy it for. We've seen a thread full of people here doing just that, so you know I'm not making this up!!! Obviously that's hugely dumbed down as I'm sure you appreciate John, and there are plenty of ways for retailers to add value to the product that we won't go in to here, but hopefully you see my point. If not, walk into any successful business and look at why they're successful.

So, the question YOU as the retailer need to ask John is, including all costs why is my stock costing me $360?

Pete