Thread: Having trouble welding a T joint

Have you tried lifting the rod up a bit, sounds like it could be a bit to close to the work and lay it over in the direction that you're traveling.

Originally Posted by Acco

Have you tried lifting the rod up a bit, sounds like it could be a bit to close to the work".

I'd do the opposite... get the rod in so it is right in the corner - touching the puddle, but make sure the amps are cranked up so it is nice and hot - the amps should be hot enough so that your rod doesn't even look like sticking. Go for something like 125% of what you'd do for a butt weld. Keep a tight arc otherwise it'll get out of hand. Don't weave or do e's (well not at this stage anyway), just concentrate on getting the arc tight in the corner.

Bisect the angle of the corner with your rod - or possibly direct it more towards the non-open-ended piece of metal. As acco says, lay your rod over a bit, so the arc is directed back in towards the puddle more as well (just a little bit more).

Welding into a valley as you describe should give you the best chance of success, but once you have your technique right you'll find it won't be hard to do other positions. Give us a bit more detail on the rods you're using and polarity.

We love photos on this site.

Cheers

- Mick

I've tried using lots of brands. My worst results were with CIG rods, my best with SWEC (Chinese!) rods SH421-01 2.5 X 300mm
I'm using an old massively heavy copper-coil AC Transarc Tradesman, and have tried running it anywhere from 80 to 150 amps
I tried holding the rod further away this afternoon, but still no better. I lost the arc intermittently, and when it did hold it burnt a hole through the plate.
I'll try going deep in the groove with the rod angled back.

Originally Posted by SimonP

I've tried using lots of brands. My worst results were with CIG rods, my best with SWEC (Chinese!) rods SH421-01 2.5 X 300mm
I'm using an old massively heavy copper-coil AC Transarc Tradesman, and have tried running it anywhere from 80 to 150 amps
I tried holding the rod further away this afternoon, but still no better. I lost the arc intermittently, and when it did hold it burnt a hole through the plate.
I'll try going deep in the groove with the rod angled back.

I'm not familiar with those rods, but I googled them and it seems they're equivalent to 6013 which are pretty good generally, but have got a bit of a reputation for "tracking" (i.e. following one side) and slag inclusion. I've never tried them with a machine like yours... so can't comment for sure, but they should run on AC no problems - so in the absence of anything else, I'd persist with these. Your 2.5mm rods are about the right size - I'd either use these or 3.2mm. If you happen to have any 6010 or 6011 rods hanging around I'd reckon you'd have no trouble getting the weld into the corner of the fillet as they penetrate better, but don't expect a 'nice' weld. 6012 rods are my favourite for general work.

You'll have far less problems with burning holes if you hold a short arc.

Another thing is to make sure that the weld starts properly (pause momentarily to make sure it burns into the corner), as a) the base metal will be cold and needs some more encouragement, and b) once a weld starts tracking, it tends to keep tracking. This is where a little (little) bit of weave right at the start help to make sure you've got both side of the metal involved in the weld, but otherwise isn't needed.

Good luck

- Mick

Just tried leaning the rod forwards so the arc faces back into the pool with the rod deep into the groove
I initially had the same problem with metal deposited only on one surface
I then tried pushing the molten metal back with the rod "three steps forward, two steps back" etc - what a difference! I've now got a bead on both surfaces and it's starting to look professional, with nice even ripples in the weld. I'm still not sure if that's what the experts do though

My suggestion would be to try and concentrate on watching the weld pool (not the arc or anything else), and rather than just weaving in whatever pattern, actually watch the edges of the pool as you draw it along and make sure they come into solid contact with each side using whatever movement is needed.

You can also lean the stick back a bit and use the arc to blow the pool backwards a little - that lets you get the stick a bit deeper in the vee, and gives you a bit more time to lead the pool about and fuse with the metal before it catches up with the stick.

Edit: sounds like you've already tried some of this

Originally Posted by SimonP

Just tried leaning the rod forwards so the arc faces back into the pool with the rod deep into the groove
I initially had the same problem with metal deposited only on one surface
I then tried pushing the molten metal back with the rod "three steps forward, two steps back" etc - what a difference! I've now got a bead on both surfaces and it's starting to look professional, with nice even ripples in the weld. I'm still not sure if that's what the experts do though

Cool... only thing to watch with that technique is that you don't trap slag in the weld, so make sure your back steps don't go back beyond the molten area of your puddle. Now that you've got it working, you'll probably find you can do away with a lot of the movement and concentrate more on rod angle and maintaining a constant arc length.

Cheers

- Mick

Thanks for all the help, I'll try all the above

Seems like you are running a little cool and too much arc length. For a 5mm fillet weld I would be thinking 160A + and keep it tight in the corner but been I while since I have lit up the stick welder. You shouldn't need to weave back and forth, I will check it out.
Are you running your machine on 240Volt or 415Volt?

Originally Posted by WelderMick

If you happen to have any 6010 or 6011 rods hanging around I'd reckon you'd have no trouble getting the weld into the corner of the fillet as they penetrate better, but don't expect a 'nice' weld. 6012 rods are my favourite for general work.

You'll have far less problems with burning holes if you hold a short arc.
- Mick

6010's won't work as they are DC only and the 6011's will need to be run on the 70V OCV terminal of the Transarc, (which isn't a copper coil machine - it's actually an aluminium coil on that machine by the way).
Fire sticks, (any electrode ending ion 10 or 11) are good in some ways but I think that your suggestion of a good E4112 electrode is better.
I have found that many of the Chinese electrodes need a lower drag angle to control the copious slag that they produce.
You want your amps reasonably high, say 90A for a 2.5 electrode (assuming that you have a good power supply to your welder otherwise you will need to adjust upwards accordingly).

Originally Posted by johncar

Seems like you are running a little cool and too much arc length. For a 5mm fillet weld I would be thinking 160A + and keep it tight in the corner but been I while since I have lit up the stick welder. You shouldn't need to weave back and forth, I will check it out.
Are you running your machine on 240Volt or 415Volt?

That would be for a 4mm electrode?

I have a box of chinese electrodes that are hard to control as the OP described. At work we use the WIA Austarc 12's and 13's and they are a joy. Don't be afraid to turn it up either.

Was talking to my boss about it, he is a metallurgist and qualified weld inspector. He reckons most folks weld too cold and should just turn it up.

And just for interest in the last couple of weeks I have been doing a lot of submerged arc welds with 2.4mm wire, 400 amps fillet welds with one plate being 40mm and the other 20mm, both 250 grade. We put 8mm fillets on both sides of the joint, no weld prep just square edges, no preheat either just line the boom up and zap. Test pieces were cut from the weld and sent out. All plates broke in the parent metal at around 450mpa (remember the plate is graded 250mpa) and not one weld failed.

The moral of the story is - turn it up, and you don't need as big a weld as you may think!

Another tip I can offer that I have found with my chinese rods - really lay the rod over in the joint until you see the weld pool is wetting in to both sides of the joint then lift it up to the proper angle.

Ben

I've been runniing the welder on 240V single phase. It was originally 415V three phase, but the guy I bought it off changed it over to run on his home 15 amp supply.
I've now got three phase at home and I'm going to change it back to 415V

I think you're right about running the rods too cold. Since turning it up and laying the rod down the difference has been immense

I really like the SWEC rods. They really run nicely and are very easy to start. I get them at weekend markets for between $6-8 for 2.5kg. I've cut lots of welds open and they never has slag inclusions unless I've stuffed up

That's good it should run nicer on the higer voltage, mine does at least.
I may have been a little high on the current in my previous post, I probably run closer to 100A on the 2.5 rods but still yet to drag it out and fire it up sorry..