Thread: Welding Duralgal 40x40x2.0 and 20x20x1.6 - MIG or Stick?

For the size of metal that you are welding, Mig is the go as arc would produce too much heat and distort the metal.
Regarding the learning side, do you have a TAFE college in your area. If you do have a TAFE College in your area pay them a visit and see if they have a werlding course; and then enrol for that course as this is the best way of learning how to get the most out of your Mig welder.
Several years ago I did a weelding course with TAFE at Noarlunga, SA and it has proved to be invaluable since doing it.
Cheers Alby

I guess the first question should be, what MIG do you have, and are you running gas? I did a heap of 50x50x2 Duragal with a decent MIG and gasless wire and got very good results - it wasn't that hard to dial in the right volts and speed, making me think perhaps you have a cheap MIG?

I'd suggest chopping up lots of short lengths of RHS and practising - if there is an experienced welder you can get on site, I'd certainly consider that option, but keep in mind, if your MIG is a POS, there may be a limit to what they can achieve with it.

As for courses, if you can stick weld already, then you don't need a course to MIG weld effectively - you already have the key skills.

I've done heaps of these sizes with stick and got good results, and I'm no brilliant welder.
The machine I use is a Smootharc 130.
I would suggest using stick if you are having trouble coming to grips with your MIG.

I reckon trying to do a fillet weld on 1.6mm section with a stick welder is a recipe for pain.

Your suggestion to hire a welder has some merit because you want the job to move on. But if you are comfortable with a stick then have a practice as mentioned and go from there. I am only self taught be I can weld either black or gal successfully with a stick. Because of the gal you will have more smoke and a lot more going on through the mask as the gal is burned away. You just need to see what the weld is doing and not focus on the "burning" of the gal. Yes it will take a little time but not long to master it. Just be aware of the smoke! It can make you feel really sick if you get a gut full of it.
I do prefer to use galvanised RHS for things I do for myself especially if the job is outside exposed to weather. Our front gate, for instance, is 30mm galv pipe welded together with sheep yard mesh as an infill. I did not paint the welds because the galv activity keeps the welds from rusting! I remember reading that GMH used galv pressed metal to make bonnet hinge brackets. They had holes about 30mm punched in them as per the design. GMH was criticized for not coating the raw edges of the sheet metal. So they conducted some lab tests and found that a hole up to 50mm would not rust on the edges due to the electrolytic action of the galv on the faces of the sheet used.
Good luck! This should be one more skill that you can have under your belt

Thanks to all for the feedback!

RustyArc - I have a Cigweld 180se Transmig about ten years old that hasn't seen much action - maybe three 4.5Kgm rolls.

Regarding welding 1.6mm or 2.0mm with the rig, inside the welder door it indicates gasless wire settings start at 3.0mm. For anything less use gas. So now another variable! - Should I be using gas and solid wire for 1.6/2.0?

I have .9mm Cigweld Sheild Core wire installed.

Another interesting thing - I use 4.5Kgm rolls. When installing the wire reel on the wire reel hub, the wire reel must be pushed to the base of the wire reel hub to engage the stopper so the wire reel won't spin on the reel hub and allow the friction brake to operate. The trouble with this is that the wire comes off the reel the wire is NOT in line with the feed motor mechanism, but off to the side. In fact the wire drags on the side of platic wire reel as it feeds. This seems wrong to me???

The wire reel in the welder has probably been there for 3 - 5 years and the outer layers might be rusty - not sure. I'll look at this and remove any bad wire.

How often should the torch liner be changed?

I really don't think there is anything wrong with the welding machine, it is the operator (me) that needs some education! Trying to weld with the darn thing and really not knowing what to do is so frustrating. Maybe that's why I like stick, not many variables!!

My stick welder is a Ozito AC buzz box I paid $100.00 for at Bunnings. Makes pretty nasty looking wells on the thin stuff though. But it sure is easy to use. If I can't get my MIG rig set-up, I might consider an Inverterr Stick.

Any sites that covers MIG set-up/dial-in that you recommend?

Thanks

Originally Posted by twebb01

Regarding welding 1.6mm or 2.0mm with the rig, inside the welder door it indicates gasless wire settings start at 3.0mm. For anything less use gas. So now another variable! - Should I be using gas and solid wire for 1.6/2.0?

I did my heap of thin-walled RHS with a UniMIG 165 inverter with 0.8mm gasless wire and it worked out fine. The only reason I can think of why your machine may not like doing thinner sections with gasless is due to poor voltage regulation at low currents, but that's just a guess.

I'd just try using the recommended gas settings for your gasless wire (with the right polarity), see how it goes on a test piece and adjust the volts and feed from there.

Thanks Rusty, I'll get some 0.8 gasless wire and 0.8 tips next week and give it a go. I'm confident that it is just me not knowing what I'm doing verses the capability of the welder. I'll start with the indicated volts and wire feed for the thickness and go from there!

Thanks again for the help!

After *some* persuasion the boss has bought a second hand WIA mig. Small amount of TLC was required (next step is to convince him to replace the outer covers with newly cut, folded and yellow powdercoated ones.....) and it has been amusing watching the 'trainee' change from stick to MIG and drag the MIG torch rather than push into the weld....

Don't laugh... it happens. Yes, there are times when with both stick and MIG need to be dragged or pushed, but for basic runs a basic change can make an amazing difference.....

Perhaps you should 'dial in' on some blue (prime coated) RHS so that you can isolate the way the gal carries on from your welding. The settings for MIG will be a little bit different. I tend run more amps and wire feed to burn through the gal and increase the weld (pass) speed. Of course, have lots of ventilation. Some people reckon drinking a glass of milk is a wive's tale but I reckon it works...

Of course you can grind the gal off in the are to be welded...

If you already have 0.9 wire, then there is no point lashing out for some 0.8 wire. There is bugger all difference between the two when running gasless.

First of all, have you got the polarities right?

Must be ten yrs or so since I've used one, but if the polarities aren't right, it won't weld properly and you'll have all sorts of problems.

The other thing to check as well, is that you're using the correct rollers as well. You need the serrated ones for gasless.

Yeah, I wouldn't bother changing to 0.8mm unless the wire you've got is really cactus. The polarity thing is something I mentioned - for gasless, you want to make sure the job clamp is +ve and the torch -ve.

There's plenty of guides on the net about how to tell if your MIG is dialled in - as I said, start with the gas settings printed on the machine and adjust from there.

Thanks to all who have responded - all responses were all helpful and much appreciated as I come to grips with MIG.

I verified that I do have the polarities correct!

The wire roller is wrong - as some posters have indicated I should be using the serrated roller for flux wire. I've been using the stock roller that came with the machine which is for hard wire.

I missed that point about the wire roller when reading the operating manual! However, I bought the welder and flux (gasless) wire at the same time from a prominent Brisbane welding supply. For a rookie like me it would have been helpful had the dealer said, - "OBTW - for the flux wire you need a different wire roller".

I'll order the correct wire roller Monday!!

The other issue is installing the 4.5Kgm wire reel where it is inline with the wire feed AND engaged with the wire reel clutch - I have some ideas, so that shouldn't be a major problem - but I'm always interested in recommendations!!

I don't know what the next size up is from 4.5Kgm, but whatever the size is, probably would not have this problem!! I've asked CIG for a work around when using the 4.5Kgm wire reel.

So MAYBE by the end of next I'll be firing up the mig - meanwhile I'll be playing with the stick welder!!

Thanks again for all your help!!

Hi twebb01,

I had the same issue with my Mig (UNIMIG 235). The friction brake lug is built for 15Kg rolls so the smaller 5kg are off centre
.
My fix:
I got a plastic empty wire reel (from the TAFE course I did - ask nicely) and cut out about one third the depth of the centre hub with a dremel.
This was used as a spacer, and has the hole to accept the friction brake lug.
To replicate the brake lug on my spacer, a short piece of 9mm tube was cut from an old garden irrigation fitting and pushed into the other end of the hole.
This kept my 5kg reel in place and it lines up really well. Not bad for a zero dollar outlay.
If you don't have the irrigation tubing, a piece of dowel is close enough.

Single-phase -

Thanks for the idea. I already have a work-aound in place, but like your idea much, much better! I'll be putting you idea in place when I get an empty roll.

I contacted CIG about the problem and they were no help!

Thanks again

twebb01