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7th March 2006, 08:41 AM #16
MAy be cost prohibitive, but wottabout a good quality heatsink material?
I reckon ANdy is right, if the weld is too close to the water then it will just boil away laving the edge unprotected.Boring signature time again!
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7th March 2006, 08:48 AM #17
A heat sink could be a good idea - nothing flash, just big bits of scrap clamped on between the file end and the weld
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7th March 2006, 08:57 AM #18
What about brazing? Not strong enough?
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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7th March 2006, 09:01 AM #19
I think the answer is as Andy Mac suggests. Stop buggering around with pots of water, just weld it up as per normal, then heat treat. I find the only difficult thing about the process is getting enough heat, particularly with solid lumps of steel. LPG gives up the fight on anything bigger than the tang, and I have no oxy.
Am planning a small, portable forge. Suggest you contemplate also, Jake. Should open up a world of further endeavour.Bodgy
"Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams
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7th March 2006, 11:29 AM #20
Thanks everyone....good stuff. Sorry about my absense. Had to take off.
Low hydrogen rods, heatsinking sounds like good advice.
Blacksmith stuff really sounds interesting allright, but, I'd imagine there's a fair bit to learning and then practice, to get to the point where I can successfully harden then temper a blade 'just right' ...... Be a lot of stuffups no doubt, which will only distract from my interests right now.
its seems far easier right now, to pick up an old Wiltshire file, grind it to shape, pull back if too hot, buff it sharp.....DONE ! I mean, I like to keep things simple. Creating a blade, by the regular Blacksmithing way must be far tricker.
And besides, the results I'm getting are really good. These old files seem to be perfectly tempered already for the plane blades I'm making at the moment. I'm no expert, but they seem to retain their edge far better than the profile blades that come with the planes in the first place! I'm talking about Stanley 45, and 55 blades etc.
AND, I'm a cheap bugger. And nothings cheaper than old rusty files from old scungy toolboxes from the markets.
Thanks for the feedback on the danger....... That was my biggest worry. Means now I can do some experimenting.....
Andy ! ...Question :> The colour left on a shinny piece of steel is indicative of the hardness , right ? So, if I ground off the seration of a file, making it all shinny and did some welding on it, Can I be certain that portions of the file that haven't changed colour haven't been tempered ?
Cause, if thats a certainty, then I can test this water idea, to see if the colour of the steel changes under the water.....And what colours become a worry anyway ?....Light yellows the first to appear isn't it ?...Its all a bit of a guess, I suppose, but if an area under the water gets much darker than light yellow then I can say that the ideas failed, right ? ....Would that be an acceptable test ?
I'm going to give it a go ! See what happens.... I'll post pictures of the results (eventually) thanks
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7th March 2006, 11:42 AM #21
Jake, know what you're on about, I 've made a few gouges, chisels etc from old files.
I think that you're missing a bit of the logic here. It must take hours to fashion the hardened steel from an un-treated file, particularly an old file with high carbon content. If you anneal (think that's right) ie make it back into soft, workable steel, your fashioning process will be SO much easier.
Also think you over estimate the skill required to harden. Someone correct me if I've got this ballsed up, but you simply heat to cherry red, then quench!
Have a go!Bodgy
"Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams
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7th March 2006, 01:07 PM #22Originally Posted by apricotripper
Bodgy, thats the simple way of saying you've hardened it... the tempering is to then alter that hardness to a more tractable state. But with welding and grinding there are stresses intorduced and if I was doing it, I'd relieve those before hardening.
Cheers,Andy Mac
Change is inevitable, growth is optional.
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7th March 2006, 01:30 PM #23SENIOR MEMBER
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Sorry, I may not have got the gist of the thread but why can't it be bronze welded?.
David
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7th March 2006, 01:37 PM #24
That's what I said. They ignored me
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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7th March 2006, 02:09 PM #25Originally Posted by Metal Head
I don't know really, personally haven't tried brazing high carbon steel, just mild and cast, but that's what TCT are joined with? Wouldn't sufficient heat still enter the steel to alter the hardness? Does Jake even have oxy-acet?
Cheers,Andy Mac
Change is inevitable, growth is optional.
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7th March 2006, 02:18 PM #26
With brazing, you only need enough heat to melt the wire, which is much less than you need when arc welding because with that you need to melt the base material itself. I don't know whether it would affect the hardness or not. I just know it's a lot cooler. Might be worth a try if he can get hold of an oxy set.
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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7th March 2006, 02:34 PM #27
The other option is brazing.
Boring signature time again!
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7th March 2006, 02:56 PM #28
Don't be ridiculous! That'll NEVER work....
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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7th March 2006, 07:11 PM #29
Jake, bite the bullet! Stop pussyfooting around! Get into the magical world of forges, anvils and very big hammers.
Brazing? It'll be superglue next!
I shall have a stern word with you next week.Bodgy
"Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams
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7th March 2006, 07:12 PM #30SENIOR MEMBER
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Originally Posted by Andy Mac
Cheers
David
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