Thread: Welding strength?

Originally Posted by Fossil

It is a shame DJ removed your first pics on page 1.
A pic as above, alongside your first posted pic would make your positive progress obvious for all newcomers to this thread. How about resizing and replacing the original pics DJ.
I will do it if you like??

He was asked to resize them but after 24 hrs they hadn't been, so they were removed.

You're more than welcome to do so Fossil, here is a link to his Photobucket Album.

I think at the present time you would be better doing a toolbox with pop rivots.

Originally Posted by motegi

If I get one will definitely be a gas & gasless but I don't see myself geting a Boyle of gas at home. Part of the reason for my wanting to get a mig is because I want to also make a aluminium toolbox for the trailer and want someting that does presentable welds, and I'm tempted by the ease of use of the mig.

All welding machines will do presentable welds if there operating without fault,it depends on the abillity of the operator.

If I get one will definitely be a gas & gasless but I don't see myself geting a Boyle of gas at home. Part of the reason for my wanting to get a mig is because I want to also make a aluminium toolbox for the trailer and want someting that does presentable welds, and I'm tempted by the ease of use of the mig.

Mastering stick welding will give you valuable experience to assist in mastering MIG.

I cannot see you making an aluminum toolbox anytime soon with a gasless MIG setup.
RE: Stick.

Don't knock the process. It really isn't too difficult to master IMO, and is an excellent low cost process for welding at home, and is used in many fabrication shops.

I have seen too many MIG welds that look exceptionally nice but there has been no fusion on one side of the metal...

I have never seen a stick weld do this..If a stick weld looks crap it is crap, if it looks good, it is good..

I do not trust my MIG welds for critical work..

Originally Posted by motegi

What i tried here is a zigzag patern, the penetration is actually quite good from the look of it we I was welding...

From these images do you think these are strong enough welds?

Picture 1 .Amps way,way too low- the weaving is being advanced in the direction of travel, too rapidly with out overlap to to the last weave. For beginners i would advise to leave the weave alone as there is a potential for defects in every direction change. Sorry! but weaving will give less peno than straight bead welding.

Picture 2 With higher amps and a shorter arc the bead is a 1000% improvement on previous attempts.If you can consistently weld to that standard , you will be there.

If I could make a minor criticism it is to pause and fill up the football shaped crater at the ends.When a weld cracks it is usually from such a crater.
Build your trailer with welds like this.

As far as the gas less mig goes there's a whole new can of worms to be opened there. There is quite a bit of helpful discussion already on the forum if you care to look for it. It something I would avoid just for now until you get your trailer and current problems sorted.

If you can show us a pic of the 50mm box to flat plate joint and I'll be happy to give you a hand with it.I'm not sure of what you are on about in this case.

Cheers
Grahame

wow....Fossil, looking back on my original weld they do look pretty shabby!!!

I think one of the most annoying thing I am finding with the stick is that it leaves way too much flux and chipping it away is no fun task. At certain point I have been very tempted to run to bunnings to get myself a MIG as I'm chipping away...

Graham, what 50mm box are you referring to? Can't seem to find the post you are referring to?

So you guys dont think a MIG is go for now?

I am actually feeling very fond of this welding business...Once I finish this I might build a welding trolley as soon as I can find myself a workshop!

Thank you all for your comments and help!

Heres some photos of my progress...

The trailer chasis box frame together...


Welding some extra cross brace in the front...


Dummying the drawbar in place...



The drawbar welded on and I've added some extra braces ( 50mmx5mm plate)

You should now weld across the draw bar. That is if you are looking at it from the draw bar back. Never weld from left to right across those pieces of box section.

This I have heard from trailer guys and they say it weakens the draw bar or something and I think they mentioned that to get it registered that can void it...

Others with more sound knowledge on this might be able to help out more here, I'm not 100% sure of this so maybe some one else can clear it up more.


As to the mig,

The fact is that you will kick a** with a mig. It is way, way more easier to use. But yes learning to stick first is good practice.

And secondly I dunno about the Bunnings Ozito migs..

Yeah I've read prenty of Yonnie's posts regarding that, but they were referring to the front of the drawbar that meets the frame. Hence, I've just welded the rear section. The reason for this is to allow some flex in the drawbar system and if you weld the front the drawbar system will not have the required flex...

Anyone can recommend a sub $500 Mig for the odd jobs aroud the house type? From the previous posts I see people recommend welders in the $1000+ range and I just dont wanna spend that much on a tool i will not use very often ( although I am always dreaming up new projects with my new found skill)...

Originally Posted by motegi

Yeah I've read prenty of Yonnie's posts regarding that, but they were referring to the front of the drawbar that meets the frame. Hence, I've just welded the rear section. The reason for this is to allow some flex in the drawbar system and if you weld the front the drawbar system will not have the required flex...

Anyone can recommend a sub $500 Mig for the odd jobs aroud the house type? From the previous posts I see people recommend welders in the $1000+ range and I just dont wanna spend that much on a tool i will not use very often ( although I am always dreaming up new projects with my new found skill)...

Try a little inverter stick welder (MMA) before you buy a MIG, Motegi. They're vastly easier to use than the stick welder you're using now. I sold my MIG the other day. I don't like MIG welding all that much. The MMA welders run at a higher frequency and are smoother and you can turn down the amps for thin stuff and not lose the arc.

By the way, you're learning at an exponential rate. That last weld looked pretty good to me. Any doubts, don't be afraid to go over the top of them, because with the extra metal acting as a heat sink you can up the amps a bit and so some slight weaving without burning through.

Originally Posted by motegi

Yeah figured a bevel may help but wouldn't the rod arc to the outer edges of the bevel since that is the shortest path?
My concern is having to weld 50mm wide plate to 50mm wide rhs as i cant seem to get the weld into the area where the RHS rolls in the corners...
!

RHS or box, same thing.

Is this what you mean. Excuse the ruff as guts box drawing but I am sick and in a hurry . Tack the thing first of course.

Note the electrode angle changes for this one.No weave ,keep short arc and fill it up. I would avoid the satin craft just for now because if you don't hold a short arc wit reasonable amps with them you will get slag holes.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Rossluck

Try a little inverter stick welder (MMA) before you buy a MIG, Motegi. They're vastly easier to use than the stick welder you're using now. I sold my MIG the other day. I don't like MIG welding all that much. The MMA welders run at a higher frequency and are smoother and you can turn down the amps for thin stuff and not lose the arc.

By the way, you're learning at an exponential rate. That last weld looked pretty good to me. Any doubts, don't be afraid to go over the top of them, because with the extra metal acting as a heat sink you can up the amps a bit and so some slight weaving without burning through.

Agree with the inverter comment but not the going over the top of the old weld, never do this unless you're building up a fillet, if in doubt grind the original weld back to existing metal and reweld.

As Woodwould said in the other thread, you need to learn how to weld first and then maybe consider building a trailer. What you have put together so far is not suitable to be towed behind a vehicle on the highway, heck not even a farm.

No excuses for being blunt but it needs to be stressed that what you have demonstrated so far WILL at some point FAIL.

Either get someone who knows what they're doing or go to a tafe course and learn how to weld before you kill someone.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

RHS or box, same thing.

No it isn't..

RHS Rectangular Hollow Section

SHS Square Hollow Section

CHS Circular Hollow Section



Yes I am being a smart #### cos the budget is on the TV at the moment and not worth watching...