Thread: My New, Old 24" Woodfast Scroll Saw

Originally Posted by Woodlens

I got the specs when I purchased the woodfast secondhand so I do not know the history of the photocopy. It certainly looks as though someone was chasing spare parts through Wolfenden Machinery sometime after the GST was introduce in 2000. As my machine is complete it is a mystery.

PS . make sure you get the motor running in the correct direction before you hook up the belt to the gearbox.

Cheers
Scott

Thanks for bringing up the motor direction, I didn't know about this before you emailed me a copy, and this was my expression when I read it.

About 50% of the 3 phase machines I have used, when I first connect them are running backwards, so I wasn't liking the odds, fortunately when I checked it, the motor and pulleys were turning in a clockwise direction. So standing looking at the pulleys they are rotating clockwise, PLEASE Someone correct me now if I have misunderstood this.

image.jpg

The words "gearbox breakdown" does not sound good.

Cheers,

Camo

As Camoz has already spotted, I purchased the saw advertised on the forum last weekend. I am completely inexperienced with scroll/electric jigsaws and also with such old machinery so maybe its a case of 'fools rush in." As such, please excuse my ignorance in the post and questions below. I am really impressed with the solidity and quality of this machine so I might get a taste for using/restoring such things.

However, the machine actually works, as in parts that should go up and down do go up and down, and it doesn't blow any fuses! It appears reasonably complete (apart from a blade) although it does not have a blower attachment from the top as far as I can see. I have read this thread and have downloaded the documents that you have all so kindly provided so I have a start. I have attached some photos of the machine. The first is straight off Ben+ ad for the saw showing "as purchased" the rest show it in my workshop with the table cleaned of rust but no other work done yet. The table took a lot of mechanical rust removal - sanding, as well as some Phosphoric acid treatment, to get to look like a cast iron table rather than a lump of the Hammersley Ranges.

I suspect that this machine may be a 1979 model. It has a steel cover for the belt drive and the motor has "L79" stamped on it. Does that seem likely?

Camo has PM'd me to say that the oil is non-synthetic 40 W, which I presume equals the requirements in the documents that he put on this thread specifying SAE50 (I don't know much about oil) so that at least gets me started on cleaning out the oil reservoir and re-filling it.

However, I have some basic questions please. 1. Are the blades the same as pinned hand jigsaw blades or are they a special blade? Where do I buy blades? 2. is the polypropylene that Camo mentioned for gasket material a standard gasket material or something else readily available?

Thanks in advance

David

Photos

As purchased.jpgIn workshop - LHS.jpgIn workshop RHS.jpg'head' of machine.jpgMotor details.jpgSwitch.jpgWoodfast label.jpg
As purchased, workshop LHS, RHS, "head of machine" motor spec, electric control switch, Woodfast label.

David,

Congratulations on the purchase, I am a bit biased probably, but these are a great machine IMO. Running properly there should be virtually no vibration, perhaps the only negative I will say from experience, is they are not designed to take super fine blades (I am talking the really thin scrollsaw blades, they will simply break them), but then I don't do a lot of really fine scrollsaw work.

Firstly let me correct myself, I told you in my PM to use 40W oil (based on my terrible memory), it should have been SAE50. The best source I found was motor cycle shops that deal with second hand bikes like Harleys (you can buy it in a 1L bottle). This is a non-synthetic oil (which is what they suggest, and I would avoid using anything with synthetics, as I would be worried about the effect it might have on the working parts) and you need the thickness of the 50W as the machine is set up to splash the oil onto all the working parts in the gearbox, if you have trouble finding it, let me know and I will dig out the bottle and list a photo of it for you.

My first suggestion would be to resist the urge to run it anymore, until you have changed the oil. The mechanism on the inside of the gearbox, is a great design, but could easily wear if it is run with old or worse still no oil, and I imagine you have already worked out that spare parts are not available anymore.

Pull the cover off the sump, there are four screws, drain it (it might be a bit messy, I had mine dismantled when I drained it), give it a good clean out and add fresh oil, then close it up (don't worry about adding a new seal yet), run it for a few minutes to make sure any residue of old oil or grime comes off in the new oil, drain it again then add your gasket, and when the gasket is dry, fill it up with fresh oil. Even if it looks like it has oil in it I would still change the oil before using the saw. If someone has put fresh oil in it, there is a chance that the new and old oil will not mix well, and the old oil may be full of grit.

Regarding the polypropylene, if I had it over, I would probably ditch this and just use something like gasket goo (the stuff you can buy at automotive shops in a tube), I think I just tried to be a bit more fancy with this idea than was needed (I wanted to be able to take the cover off without destroying the gasket, but the reality is, I put about 500ml of oil in it run it for a bit, dumped the oil and refilled it, and had no need to open the gearbox again), the polypropylene worked well, but was a bit over the top in hindsight.

A handy hint for next time you are removing rust from a cast iron table, is to use one of those brass wire wheels (not the aggressive wire wheels), in an angle grinder. This makes light work of removing rust (I would say 5 minutes tops to remove the rust of a table top that size). Just make sure you use a good ventilation (a mask is a good idea and doing it outside), as it can create a fair cloud of rust in the air. Another safety issue is to watch the orientation of the grinder when you are cleaning up close to the edges, make sure you are spinning so it wants to go into the table not pull off the edge of the table (otherwise if you fall off the edge a bit the grinder will try to come at you).

Regarding blades, assuming it has the same design as mine (which I think it does from your pictures), you can use just standard scrollsaw blades, pinned and pinless. You can also use hacksaw blades cut to size (for thin metal, don't try and cut anything too thick or the blade will just brake. What I have been using is a thin bandsaw blade (which I broke on the bandsaw), I just cut it to suitable lengths.

I hope what I have written has made sense, feel free to ask any questions, my memory isn't perfect, but I did strip this machine basically to it's smallest pieces, and have quite a few photos that are not listed.

Cheers,

Camo

P.S. The air comes from the top (see your picture below)

'head' of machine2.jpg

This may or not blow air (they used to have a leather washer, which may have perished over time. This can be replaced, but I have dust extraction, so have not got around to fixing this on mine yet).

Thank-you very much Camo for your very helpful reply. I haven't been tempted to run the machine, partly because I was concerned about the oil as it looks pretty dirty and also quite a bit spilled out in transport. Also, I do not have any blades for it and I plan to read the manuals carefully, clean and grease etc. before I venture into the world of scrollsawing. I do not have the patience or skills to strip and repaint it, and also quite like the old hammertone green so I will just try to clean up the rust spots and protect the metal from further rusting. Hopefully it will work faithfully for me after that. I'll buy some gasket goo as my last tube expired about 30 years ago!

I'll post again when I have given it a run.

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Thank-you very much Camo for your very helpful reply. I haven't been tempted to run the machine, partly because I was concerned about the oil as it looks pretty dirty and also quite a bit spilled out in transport. Also, I do not have any blades for it and I plan to read the manuals carefully, clean and grease etc. before I venture into the world of scrollsawing. I do not have the patience or skills to strip and repaint it, and also quite like the old hammertone green so I will just try to clean up the rust spots and protect the metal from further rusting. Hopefully it will work faithfully for me after that. I'll buy some gasket goo as my last tube expired about 30 years ago!

I'll post again when I have given it a run.

Regards

David

Hi, have found the correct oil so will start work on it this weekend. In the meantime I have scanned and optically character read the Woodfast machine manual and then corrected the OCR errors. I now have a much more readable, and printable, manual in MS Word docx format. I have attached it in case it is useful to anyone.

Regards

DavidHare and Forbes 24 inch jigsaw manual.docx

Well, I've totally cleaned out the gearbox and replaced the oil - was very slow to re-fill the reservoir but its done. I've also cleaned and oiled and greased every other part I can get to. The machine runs very smoothly and quietly but I still haven't found the correct blades so I don't know how well it cuts. I went to Hare and Forbes in Brisbane and bought some blades but the only ones they had were very fine pinless blades and they just buckle. It looks as though the blade has to be stiff enough to push the top vise and mechanism up as the lower vise moves up - or is my machine not working correctly?

If it is working correctly then I would appreciate some recommendations for blades and places to purchase them please.

When I started the machine it "spat out" from some unknown recess the broken off ends of a number of pinned blades that look just like coping saw blades, though maybe a little stiffer. is that what I am looking for?

The "blower" at the top of my machine does not have any internal piston to push air so I will have to fit a scoop for my shop vac instead.

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Well, I've totally cleaned out the gearbox and replaced the oil - was very slow to re-fill the reservoir but its done. I've also cleaned and oiled and greased every other part I can get to. The machine runs very smoothly and quietly but I still haven't found the correct blades so I don't know how well it cuts. I went to Hare and Forbes in Brisbane and bought some blades but the only ones they had were very fine pinless blades and they just buckle. It looks as though the blade has to be stiff enough to push the top vise and mechanism up as the lower vise moves up - or is my machine not working correctly?

If it is working correctly then I would appreciate some recommendations for blades and places to purchase them please.

When I started the machine it "spat out" from some unknown recess the broken off ends of a number of pinned blades that look just like coping saw blades, though maybe a little stiffer. is that what I am looking for?

The "blower" at the top of my machine does not have any internal piston to push air so I will have to fit a scoop for my shop vac instead.

Hi David,

Good to hear it is running smoothly for you.......well sort of. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you may have fitted the blade with the bottom shaft at a location other than the top of its stroke (hope that makes sense). Basically fit the blade to the bottom vice, then turn the pulley by hand so the bottom shaft is at it's top of its stroke, then attach the blade to the top vice and add the 8 to 10lbs tension.

If you accidentally fit the blade with the shaft at a location other than top of the stroke, when you turn the machine on, the blade will bend up as the stroke goes up and whip around wildly (I have accidentally done it myself).

Hope that helps (if not, perhaps a small video might help). The only other issue I could imagine, is that there is an issue with the top spring.

Cheers,

Camo

Hi Camo,

Thanks. I had read the thread that said that but, my workshop being some distance from the house I misremembered and got it topsy-turvy. I carefully set the bottom vise at the bottom of the stroke! It didn't break the blade but it bent like wet spaghetti.

However, now that I have fitted it correctly I find that I have another problem - the top spring is broken into three parts! I had not disassembled it before, but when i found that it still does not work I have done so. The three sections had been forced over each other so that it looked like a triple-wound spring (if such things exist). I remember someone else had a broken spring so I'll search the thread to see how they solved the problem.

In the meantime, any suggestions of what spring would fit, and where I would get one, would be much appreciated.

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

However, now that I have fitted it correctly I find that I have another problem - the top spring is broken into three parts! I had not disassembled it before, but when i found that it still does not work I have done so. The three sections had been forced over each other so that it looked like a triple-wound spring (if such things exist). I remember someone else had a broken spring so I'll search the thread to see how they solved the problem.

In the meantime, any suggestions of what spring would fit, and where I would get one, would be much appreciated.

Regards

David

David - very strange that you say the spring was broken in 3 places, and that the sections had confounded themselves....just as in my Hyco (pre Woodfast) machine. I thought someone had thrown a set of small engine valve springs in there....

I've located a potential replacement spring for my machine......from Bunnings !!!! - I've not run my machine with it installed yet, as the spring end treatment is "closed and squared" but not "closed and ground". I expect that running the machine with the squared and closed end (not ground) will cause the spring to thrash oubout and rub against the shaft - not good for longevity or smooth and quiet running. I intend to wet grind the end closed, and make a small pair of seats for it. The spring head of my saw has got a few other issues to address as well (bronze bush, worn shaft, lack of diaphragm, lack of cap etc etc) hence not running it yet.

Anyway, the part from Bunnings is

CENTURY SPRING CORP
C-836
7/8" OD x 4" L x 0.080" WIRE

IMG_0623.jpg

From memory it has 14 turns total (12 active coils)

The maths goes something like this.....

MACHINE SCALE = 20lbs (delta) / 2.1" = 9.52 lbs/in required spring rate

Then an online spring calculator like this one Spring Calculator yeilds

Calculated sping rate = 9.76 lbs/in (close enough) for the Century spring
Maximum travel (coil bind) = 2.8" (71mm)
Solid height = 1.2" (31mm)

The machine stroke is 32mm (5/8")

So the maximum preload on a blade (to ensure you don't bind the spring) is (2.8"-5/8")*9.76 lbs/in = 21.2 lbs (against recommended specification of 8-10 lbs).

CAUTION - need to ensure that you do not operate the machine in the region of the coils binding - you will seriously damage your machine if this occurs.

Camoz - is your spring original and in tact ? Can you please advise free length, outside diameter, wire diamter and number of coils (in end treatment - closed and ground I assume) for comparison ?

Regards
John

Originally Posted by jcge

David - very strange that you say the spring was broken in 3 places, and that the sections had confounded themselves....just as in my Hyco (pre Woodfast) machine. I thought someone had thrown a set of small engine valve springs in there....

I've located a potential replacement spring for my machine......from Bunnings !!!! - I've not run my machine with it installed yet, as the spring end treatment is "closed and squared" but not "closed and ground". I expect that running the machine with the squared and closed end (not ground) will cause the spring to thrash oubout and rub against the shaft - not good for longevity or smooth and quiet running. I intend to wet grind the end closed, and make a small pair of seats for it. The spring head of my saw has got a few other issues to address as well (bronze bush, worn shaft, lack of diaphragm, lack of cap etc etc) hence not running it yet.

Anyway, the part from Bunnings is

CENTURY SPRING CORP
C-836
7/8" OD x 4" L x 0.080" WIRE

IMG_0623.jpg

From memory it has 14 turns total (12 active coils)

The maths goes something like this.....

MACHINE SCALE = 20lbs (delta) / 2.1" = 9.52 lbs/in required spring rate

Then an online spring calculator like this one Spring Calculator yeilds

Calculated sping rate = 9.76 lbs/in (close enough) for the Century spring
Maximum travel (coil bind) = 2.8" (71mm)
Solid height = 1.2" (31mm)

The machine stroke is 32mm (5/8")

So the maximum preload on a blade (to ensure you don't bind the spring) is (2.8"-5/8")*9.76 lbs/in = 21.2 lbs (against recommended specification of 8-10 lbs).

CAUTION - need to ensure that you do not operate the machine in the region of the coils binding - you will seriously damage your machine if this occurs.

Camoz - is your spring original and in tact ? Can you please advise free length, outside diameter, wire diamter and number of coils (in end treatment - closed and ground I assume) for comparison ?

Regards
John

Hi John,

I should have said my spring was broken in two places to give three components.

Here are some photos, first with the broken parts separated, next I have aligned them together to measure the unbroken spring length.

IMG_0694.jpgIMG_0693.jpg

The spring, put back together is 4 5/8 inches long and 7/8 inch diameter. The wire is 2.4 mm thick (metric caliper sorry).

I will check out the spring from Bunnings tomorrow.



The other strange thing when I re-filled the oil was that I found these two plastic caps upside down at the bottom of the oil cup! As mine came out of a high school I presume that some naughty child has vandalised the machine by dropping them in there. They obviously did not like the woodwork teacher - perhaps woodwork. Silly children!

IMG_0691.jpg

Regards

David

Thanks to Google
2.4 millimetres =0.094488189 inches wire for the coil.

As can be seen from the photo the spring has what looks to me like 16 active coils as well as the two end coils. Does that make it an 18 coil/turn spring?

As such I don't know how well the shorter, finer wire spring will do the job.

I'll do some searching for others.

Regards

David

Originally Posted by jcge

David - very strange that you say the spring was broken in 3 places, and that the sections had confounded themselves....just as in my Hyco (pre Woodfast) machine. I thought someone had thrown a set of small engine valve springs in there....

I've located a potential replacement spring for my machine......from Bunnings !!!! - I've not run my machine with it installed yet, as the spring end treatment is "closed and squared" but not "closed and ground". I expect that running the machine with the squared and closed end (not ground) will cause the spring to thrash oubout and rub against the shaft - not good for longevity or smooth and quiet running. I intend to wet grind the end closed, and make a small pair of seats for it. The spring head of my saw has got a few other issues to address as well (bronze bush, worn shaft, lack of diaphragm, lack of cap etc etc) hence not running it yet.

Anyway, the part from Bunnings is

CENTURY SPRING CORP
C-836
7/8" OD x 4" L x 0.080" WIRE

IMG_0623.jpg

From memory it has 14 turns total (12 active coils)

The maths goes something like this.....

MACHINE SCALE = 20lbs (delta) / 2.1" = 9.52 lbs/in required spring rate

Then an online spring calculator like this one Spring Calculator yeilds

Calculated sping rate = 9.76 lbs/in (close enough) for the Century spring
Maximum travel (coil bind) = 2.8" (71mm)
Solid height = 1.2" (31mm)

The machine stroke is 32mm (5/8")

So the maximum preload on a blade (to ensure you don't bind the spring) is (2.8"-5/8")*9.76 lbs/in = 21.2 lbs (against recommended specification of 8-10 lbs).

CAUTION - need to ensure that you do not operate the machine in the region of the coils binding - you will seriously damage your machine if this occurs.

Camoz - is your spring original and in tact ? Can you please advise free length, outside diameter, wire diamter and number of coils (in end treatment - closed and ground I assume) for comparison ?

Regards
John

Hi John,

I will try to get a chance over the next few days and open mine up and take some measurements and photos for you.

Cheers,

Camo

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

As such I don't know how well the shorter, finer wire spring will do the job.

Interesting David - your spring dimensions calculate to a spring rate of about 15 lbs/in...is this consistent with the markings on your machines tension scale ?

I think you have correctly noted there may be an issue with the installed height of the spring (from memory as I've not had a chance to take a look at my scroll saw for ages - I'll try and have a look at that tonight and let you know.)

Regards
John

Originally Posted by camoz

Hi John,

I will try to get a chance over the next few days and open mine up and take some measurements and photos for you.

Cheers,

Camo

Much appreciated Camo - would be great to have another data point.

Regards
John