Thread: My New, Old 24" Woodfast Scroll Saw

Originally Posted by jcge

Much appreciated Camo - would be great to have another data point.

Regards
John

Hey guys,

I got a chance to pull it apart and take some measurements. This is what I have:

* Firstly it might be wise to look at this picture below and make sure your setup is the same, or near enough

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

the inner face of the cap sits flush with the top.

This makes me concerned you may be missing the top to your centre shaft (number 2 in the picture below, as the spring does not rest against the inner face of the cap). So basically what I have is:

1- cap with inner shaft
2- outer shaft with stop for spring and guage reading
3- spring
4- main body
5- lower nut with blade holder (the outer shaft and spring is inserted into the main body, and the lower nut and blade holder is screwed on from the bottom
6- bolts for blade holder

Brass bushing is fitted at the bottom of the main body (this is what the spring rests on at the bottom, and the outer shaft travels through).

head assembly.jpg

* Spring dimensions are:

total length - 122mm
total diameter - 22mm
spring coil thickness - 2mm

spring.jpg


guage reads 5 to 25lb - total distance 53mm between (shaft can travel a total of 9mm further when the shaft is pulled all the way down).

Spring is ground flat on both ends:

spring end.jpg

Spring is held under slight compression when the lid is on (about 9mm compression). Spring sits between the brass top cap (as seen in the picture below), and a brass collar at the base, which the main shaft slides through.

spring housing.jpg

Dave,

Regarding the blower mechanism, as I understand it, a leather seal originally existed above the lip (as in the picture below). This creates a seal between this inner tube and the outer tube, so that as the outer tube is bought down and travels back up, it blows a small amount of air. I wouldn't imagine this would be too difficult to recreate, but I see no need in my application (as I have dust extraction set up).


air seal.jpg

Probably a better explanation is in this patent document J782 walker turner scroll saw patent Direct drive 2 speed.pdf. The third page of text approximately lines 45 to 75 give a description or the air flow.

Hope this helps guys.

Cheers,

Camo

Originally Posted by camoz

Hey guys,

I got a chance to pull it apart and take some measurements. This is what I have:

* Firstly it might be wise to look at this picture below and make sure your setup is the same, or near enough



This makes me concerned you may be missing the top to your centre shaft (number 2 in the picture below, as the spring does not rest against the inner face of the cap). So basically what I have is:

1- cap with inner shaft
2- outer shaft with stop for spring and guage reading
3- spring
4- main body
5- lower nut with blade holder (the outer shaft and spring is inserted into the main body, and the lower nut and blade holder is screwed on from the bottom
6- bolts for blade holder

Brass bushing is fitted at the bottom of the main body (this is what the spring rests on at the bottom, and the outer shaft travels through).

head assembly.jpg

* Spring dimensions are:

total length - 122mm
total diameter - 22mm
spring coil thickness - 2mm

spring.jpg


guage reads 5 to 25lb - total distance 53mm between (shaft can travel a total of 9mm further when the shaft is pulled all the way down).

Spring is ground flat on both ends:

spring end.jpg

Spring is held under slight compression when the lid is on (about 9mm compression). Spring sits between the brass top cap (as seen in the picture below), and a brass collar at the base, which the main shaft slides through.

spring housing.jpg

Dave,

Regarding the blower mechanism, as I understand it, a leather seal originally existed above the lip (as in the picture below). This creates a seal between this inner tube and the outer tube, so that as the outer tube is bought down and travels back up, it blows a small amount of air. I wouldn't imagine this would be too difficult to recreate, but I see no need in my application (as I have dust extraction set up).


air seal.jpg

Probably a better explanation is in this patent document J782 walker turner scroll saw patent Direct drive 2 speed.pdf. The third page of text approximately lines 45 to 75 give a description or the air flow.

Hope this helps guys.

Cheers,

Camo

Hi Camo,

Thanks for that very valuable information. My machine looks like it started out exactly the same as yours but now has not only the broken spring but also a missing "air-pump tube".

I wasn't very observant with my comment the spring sat on the underside of the top cap. I had forgotten that the top of the shaft has the brass fitting on it to show the tension - and that normally that is the top seat of the spring. My machine also does have the bottom brass fitting as bearing for the shaft and base for the spring - it was just too covered in grease to show up!


IMG_0700.jpgIMG_0698.jpg

1. Shaft with brass end and 2. My cap - missing the centre cylinder - "air pump tube".

==== ===== =====

As such I will use your spring measurements to try to find a replacement spring.

Can I just double check your spring wire diameter though. Is it exactly 2 mm? My vernier calipers showed 2.4 mm.

John,

Can you please calculate the spring capacity & specifications for this spring for us to specify to a manufacturer - I'm not mathematical enough for that!

Once we have those plus Camo's spring details and photo we can search for either a standard spring or else have some made.

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

My spring tension markings go from 5 lbs at the top to 25 lbs at the bottom. There is 2 1/8 inch between the 5 and 25
David

David - that's an implied spring rate of (25 lbs - 5 lbs) / 2.125" = 9.4 lbs/in (consistant between machines)

Camoz - thanks for posting the details of your machine - your spring at 122mm x 22mm x 2mm x 19 turns (17active) calcs to around 6.6 lbs/inch. That's lower than I would have thought by the implied measurement from the scale.

I'm going to persevere with the spring from Bunnings, as it's cheap and readily available. I'll let you know how I get on.

Appreciate you both taking the time to document your machines (and apologies for the hijack)

Thanks and regards
John

I went to National Industries spring manufacturers her in Fortitude Valley in Brisbane today (National Industries Pty Ltd) (also in Campbellfield VIC see their web site). They were very helpful. They dont have a stock spring exactly the same as our specifications but they produce a lot of springs and I was able to find two springs in their extras bin that, put together, came to the 122 mm. they were slightly larger diameter at 23-24 mm but they fit so I am going to try them.

National also trade under Stock Springs Australia and do have a stock spring that is 22 mm diam and longer at 200 mm, and slightly heavier wire - part no C917 (Zinc Plated Compression Springs - Stock Springs Australia) that could be cut to length and closed and ground with a bit of effort.

Also, Aurora Springs in Adelaide have a 22 mm diam longer spring with about the correct wire diameter ( 7/8 OD x 6 Long x .091 Mat. Compression Spring) that also could be cut to length and closed and ground.

I have been told that, once you cut the spring to length then to close it you shield all but the end coil with some heat resistant material then apply heat with a blowtorch to the final coil while you squeeze it with pliers into the next coil. That removes its 'springiness' and closes it in. then you apply it to a grinder to produce a flat ground end. Now, I hasten to add, I haven't done this, just been told how to do it. I think I might purchase some of the Aurora springs and give it a try, just so I have a spare or two.

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Can I just double check your spring wire diameter though. Is it exactly 2 mm? My vernier calipers showed 2.4 mm.

Hi David,

Just haven't had a chance to get back and check this yet, it's very possible that it was 2.4mm though, as I didn't have my digital calipers with me.

hopefully get a chance over the next few days.

cheers,

Camo

Hi to all,

I fitted the two slightly wider diameter springs and they fit perfectly. The machine runs quietly and smoothly and I have cut my first bit of scrollwork on it. It is a pleasure to use although I do not have a zero-space insert for the hole in the table, which might make working with thinner material difficult. That will have to be the next project. I have been considering cutting one out of a Nylon cutting board. As I don't have a lathe I will have to bodge my way through with hole saws or cut one on the Woodfast!

I should have mentioned above that the stock spring from National - C917 - is only $8.00 so it is not a big expense to try it (no postage cost for me as I could collect it). The Aurora Springs one may be more suitable as the wire diameter is closer and it is $14.20. Of course you have to add postage of around $9.00 for the Aurora spring (unless you are in Adelaide).

Thanks for providing your information and photos. It is a great example of how well this forum works.

Regards

David

Hi David, Sounds like you have got to know the machine well. Glad to hear it is all working well now. Looked better after all the work you put into cleaning up the table. I would be happy to laser cut you some zero tolerance table inserts free of charge and post them to you. I can make them out of acrylic or thin plywood. Perhaps you could email or PM me a few dimensioned drawings so I can make them the right size for you. Given that they will use next to no material, I am happy to cut quite a few. Probably not a bad idea to make a few the with an OD of whatever your verniers come up with when you measure the gap in the table, then a few at 0.5mm bigger in dia. and a few 0.5mm smaller in dia. That way at least one of them will fit nice and snugly. Kind Regards, Ben

Hi Ben,
That's great, thank you for the offer, which I will gladly accept, and for taking a continuing interest in the machine I bought from you. I'll take some photos and measurements today or tomorrow and post them on the forum to add to the documentation accumulating on this machine.
Regards
David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Hi Ben,
That's great, thank you for the offer, which I will gladly accept, and for taking a continuing interest in the machine I bought from you. I'll take some photos and measurements today or tomorrow and post them on the forum to add to the documentation accumulating on this machine.
Regards
David

Hi again Ben,

The Woodfast scrollsaw table cutout is wider at the top than all the way through the table. At the top the diameter is 30.9 mm x 1.82 mm deep. The through section is 25.4 mm diam. and 11 mm deep (below the 1.82 mm that is).

Photo:

Hole in table top.jpg

I hope that this is not too difficult to laser cut?

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

I fitted the two slightly wider diameter springs and they fit perfectly. The machine runs quietly and smoothly and I have cut my first bit of scrollwork on it. It is a pleasure to use.....
Regards
David

Good news David...that's what ultimately matters !!

Regards
John

Hi Guys,


Do you know how much difference in the original Hyco with Cast Belt cover, and the later version after camoz model with the rectangular belt cover?

I.e were there any improvements? Obviously changes in stand from and covers from cast to sheet metal for cheaper manufacture but I'd consider those going backwards.

Also can some one tell me the Vee belt size??


I have three hyco-woodfast scroll saws to look at and hopefully I can get one and get looking as nice as your lot. Need one to cut saw handles.

Also I have been wondering for ages what the halfmoon cut out on the belt side of the table is for? The early ones don't have it.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Hi Guys,


Do you know how much difference in the original Hyco with Cast Belt cover, and the later version after camoz model with the rectangular belt cover?

I.e were there any improvements? Obviously changes in stand from and covers from cast to sheet metal for cheaper manufacture but I'd consider those going backwards.

Also can some one tell me the Vee belt size??


I have three hyco-woodfast scroll saws to look at and hopefully I can get one and get looking as nice as your lot. Need one to cut saw handles.

Hi,

I cannot answer any of your questions about the differences, improvements or retrograde steps, sorry. But, I can answer in regard to my V belt, which is has painted on it "Gates TRUFLEX 1340 (3L340)"

My model has the sheet steel belt cover but I would regard that as an advantage over a cast cover. It might not look as spiffy but it is much lighter and therefore I suspect easier to open and close, which you need to do each time that change speeds or fit a new blade. I am a novice with these machines but am really impressed with mine. I made some push sticks out of scraps of 18 mm ply and it cut out the finger holes like it was 3 ply!

Regards

David

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Hi,

I cannot answer any of your questions about the differences, improvements or retrograde steps, sorry. But, I can answer in regard to my V belt, which is has painted on it "Gates TRUFLEX 1340 (3L340)"

My model has the sheet steel belt cover but I would regard that as an advantage over a cast cover. It might not look as spiffy but it is much lighter and therefore I suspect easier to open and close, which you need to do each time that change speeds or fit a new blade. I am a novice with these machines but am really impressed with mine. I made some push sticks out of scraps of 18 mm ply and it cut out the finger holes like it was 3 ply!

Regards

David

1340 TruFlex 34" x 3/8" V-Belt 3L340 $T2eC16NHJGwFFYuou38+BRZj,ehb1!~~60_57.JPG