Thread: One for Boringgeoff

Hi Kenny,
I've got one, picked up in a job lot a few months ago, and so far I've not had time to do any research on it.
It's by AECO AUSTRALIA, which as luck would have it is stamped on the half of the jaw that you are missing.
As you can see from the photo the end of the thread of the thumb screw has a washer riveted on so it has been deliberately rather than accidentally removed.
I don't know anything about AECO (Australian Engineering Co ???) apart from a quick google which wasn't all that helpful,
so if anyone can shed some light on the company that would be appreciated.
Geoff. AECO 001.jpg

Reference previous photo of brace.

I have a similar brace as per attached photos
MossBrace1.jpgMossBrace2.jpg

I have not been able to read the maker but do not believe it is the one mentioned in your last past.

Any Suggestions

Graham

Hi Graham,
This is a Spofford brace made by John S Fray of Bridgeport Connecticut USA, and one of my favourite manufacturers. The chuck was patented by Nelson Spofford in 1859 and Fray started making them soon after that.
The two piece handle is usually held together by two pewter bands, which appear to have been replaced by wire on yours. This method of handle retainer was used by Fray, on some models, long after the one piece handle, put on prior to bending the frame, was common practice. Fray probably used it as a trademark of a good quality tool.
The Fray company was taken over by Stanley in 1906 but continued manufacture at Bridgeport for about 27 years.
I believe the Spofford brace was made into the early 1940s. Your example could be pre or post Stanley, it is hard to tell when the brand is illegible.
Generally if it is pre Stanley it would read "John S Fray & Co", post Stanley would be either "The John S Fray Co" or "Stanley Rule & Level" and included the sweetheart brand.
The sweep should also be on the frame, 108 for 8 inch, 110 for 10 in and so on.
Hope that helps and thanks for posting.
Geoff.

Originally Posted by Boringgeoff

Hi Graham,
This is a Spofford brace made by John S Fray of Bridgeport Connecticut USA, and one of my favourite manufacturers. The chuck was patented by Nelson Spofford in 1859 and Fray started making them soon after that.
The two piece handle is usually held together by two pewter bands, which appear to have been replaced by wire on yours. This method of handle retainer was used by Fray, on some models, long after the one piece handle, put on prior to bending the frame, was common practice. Fray probably used it as a trademark of a good quality tool.
The Fray company was taken over by Stanley in 1906 but continued manufacture at Bridgeport for about 27 years.
I believe the Spofford brace was made into the early 1940s. Your example could be pre or post Stanley, it is hard to tell when the brand is illegible.
Generally if it is pre Stanley it would read "John S Fray & Co", post Stanley would be either "The John S Fray Co" or "Stanley Rule & Level" and included the sweetheart brand.
The sweep should also be on the frame, 108 for 8 inch, 110 for 10 in and so on.
Hope that helps and thanks for posting.
Geoff.

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for info. You are quite correct. You are an encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to braces.

I have further examined the brace and it stamped John S Fray Bridgeport CT
There does not appear to be a CO after Fray
It has a No 112 stamped on it and certainly has a 12 inch sweep.
Does this help you date it?
Regards Graham

Hi Graham,

I'd hazard a guess that it's pre Stanley because of the lack of the word "The" before John S Fray. Having said that I have seen examples of dual branding where the early brand appears on the frame with the later, post Stanley, brand appearing on the chuck shell, (on a different model not using Spoffords chuck)
Their early abbreviation of Connecticut was "Conn." where the later "CT" as in your case, fits in I don't know.
I guess we can say your brace dates from the late 80s to 1906, unless someone comes up with conflicting evidence, I'm quite comfortable with that assessment.

Regards,
Geoff.

Thank's Geoff.. I felt sure it was Aussie, just had that look and finish !...will be on the lookout now for a clunker to salvage the missing piece off although i don't imagine that happening any time soon

Interesting info on dating the Fray braces, will have to drag out my few samples and see what i have.

Ken.

Originally Posted by Boringgeoff

Hi Graham,

I'd hazard a guess that it's pre Stanley because of the lack of the word "The" before John S Fray. Having said that I have seen examples of dual branding where the early brand appears on the frame with the later, post Stanley, brand appearing on the chuck shell, (on a different model not using Spoffords chuck)
Their early abbreviation of Connecticut was "Conn." where the later "CT" as in your case, fits in I don't know.
I guess we can say your brace dates from the late 80s to 1906, unless someone comes up with conflicting evidence, I'm quite comfortable with that assessment.

Regards,
Geoff.

You would be quite right with Conn. I could only decypher the C and not the following letters and incorrectly assumed CT. The split handle on mine are held together with two wire cir-clips which obviously replaced the pewter bands you mentioned. I am intriqued to know how the bands were fixed over the handle.

I have another one to test your knowledge. By way of explanation we are setting up a museum of old trades and tools at the Hall Mens Shed (Hall in ACT not WA) and are receiving a number of donations of old tools.

Attached are two photos of the new addition. Cannot find a maker with the only inscription I can find is "British Made"


Moss Brace 3.jpgMoss Brace 4.jpg


Regards Graham

I have a (think) similar one branded J David Flather & Sons, but Geoff's the man to listen to of course.


Cheers,
Paul

Hi Graham,

The most likely maker of your "British Made" is J A Chapman of Sheffield. I believe they were the first to make the American steel brace in England when the wooden beech brace and iron scotch brace were the norm from the 1880s.
Sometimes they were branded simply "steel 10 in" others had a JAC entwined mark on the frame and others had the full "Manufactured By J A Chapman Sheffield England" on the chuck.
And Paul, your example of David Flather would also probably be made by Chapman. I have a Mathieson and a Tyzac which I believe were made for them by Chapman.
A knowledgeable chap in England who has given me most of my info about the company says "if it looks like Chapman, it probably is".
Another similar looking brace is by a Sheffield outfit, Skinner, a company that I have had absolutely no joy in researching. But what I've seen of their braces they are less common than Chapman here and usually have their brand on them.
Because of their quality of manufacture Chapmans were a target for take over and who, in 1937, should rock up from the US of A? You guessed it, Stanley bought a share of Chapman as a stepping stone to the UK market. By about 1946, I think, Stanley owned 100% of Chapman.
I have seen a photo of a hand drill with Chapman decal on it from as recently as the 1980s.
Thanks Kenny, Graham and Paul for your interest.
Regards,
Geoff.

Who would have believed boring could be so interesting.

[QUOTE=gmoss;1728686] the pewter bands you mentioned. I am intriqued to know how the bands were fixed over the handle.

Graham,
I also wondered that so I took one of my Fray braces into a local jeweller for an expert opinion. Well apart from having an opinion that it was one of the nicest looking braces he'd ever seen, he wasn't too sure how they would have done it.
The best we could come up with is that they're made oversize enough to slip on either end of the handle then shrunk by rotating in some sort of roller device.
I don't know whether there is enough variation between hot and cold in the pewter to be able to put them on hot and allow to cool and shrink into place aka the steel tyre on a wooden wheel.

And as to A Dukes comment, I thought everyone just automatically knew that boring is a boring and interesting subject.

Regards,
Geoff.

May be I should have said " boring aint boring.

Interesting article on fixing the pewter rings on a Fray brace.Re-casting Rings on a John Fray (Spofford) Brace by Will Myers

[QUOTE=Boringgeoff;1729304]

Originally Posted by gmoss

the pewter bands you mentioned. I am intriqued to know how the bands were fixed over the handle.

Graham,
I also wondered that so I took one of my Fray braces into a local jeweller for an expert opinion. Well apart from having an opinion that it was one of the nicest looking braces he'd ever seen, he wasn't too sure how they would have done it.
The best we could come up with is that they're made oversize enough to slip on either end of the handle then shrunk by rotating in some sort of roller device.
I don't know whether there is enough variation between hot and cold in the pewter to be able to put them on hot and allow to cool and shrink into place aka the steel tyre on a wooden wheel.

And as to A Dukes comment, I thought everyone just automatically knew that boring is a boring and interesting subject.

Regards,
Geoff.

Geoff,
You must have taken it to a young jeweller

Pewter melts at about 200degC, it can be cast into most close grained hardwoods without any problem at all, and it does shrink a little as it solidifies.
Here is a story by my mate Scott Grandstaff in the US...where he did a handle for a brace and used layers of tape to form a mould in the groove.
Brace - Handle




It is/was used as decoration on chisel handles, and knife handles.
Here are some of Scott's chisels...pour it in, then back into the lathe.



Here is a video of a bloke casting pewter into a wooden and plastic mould for a 0 and X's game.
Casting Pewter - YouTube

Many, many years ago I would entertain the idea of repairing pewter items for clients, and I would use a very low melting pewter solder with flux that smells like vinegar (acetic acid I guess). I would use a small wooden spatula I made to control the metal. On the rare occasion my solder wasn't a low enough melting point, I was able to get the heat in a very small area, and again use the spatulas to hold it and cajole it into shape again. It was bit like juggling 10 balls at a time....and with the client well informed of the risks to the piece. It doesn't change colour when it melts, if you go to far, it just dribbles down onto the bench...woops!
I stopped after a couple went wrong and I decided it wasn't worth the few dollars I was getting for it.

Regards,
Peter
OH..BTW, I have a brace with a weird chuck...I've seen plenty of different ones, but this one is odd.
I'll take a picture and post it later.