Thread: Bummer. Sometimes they turn out to be bodged fixups

Pity about that as it looks like a nice saw.
Sometimes old saw hardware can be found on ebay but can be pricey. There is Blackburn tools who sell the old split nut but then you may be better making another handle.
Blackburn Tools - Split nut saw bolts
I had a go at making split nuts myself with brass bar and allthread. Did the job in a rustic kind of way but someone with a metal lathe may be able to knock up something a bit better.
Regards
John

For those without a lathe- I have used 12mm brasshead, 25mm long M5 thread thumbscrews thread and 12mm brass m5 thumbnut- with a hand cut/filed slot for split screws.
The usual sources sell the thumbscrews.

For a off the shelf solution in aus, Beyond Tools stock splits nuts..

SD

I don't think those saw screws are split nuts. They look to be the Glover pattern. Why are you looking for nickel plated brass? While such screws exist, they were not commonly used (just a few top end models, mainly in America) and rarely on back saws. If you have them on that saw, they may be ring-ins. The best source of old saw screws would be the flea markets. More recent saws tend to have steel hardware and later saws again have press fit hardware.

Regards
Paul

I couldn't read the brand, but clearly British with that massive brass back and the fact you purchased in the UK.

If that helps you. I had a look through my left overs from saw restoring.

I found a set of brass nuts and a disston medallion which could fit. Although on one pic the length looks too much for your 7/8" thick handle, I do believe they should fit as I included the dome into the measurement. If I only measure from the rim to rim (means the parts which would be inset into the handle it is less then the 7/8". Not sure if that makes sense. Anyway.....



The set has two sets of normal saw bolt and nut and one medallion with nut.

I am not sure what saw they came from. At the time I restored a bunch of saws and some had broken handles and plates were cut up to scrapers, etc. So I kept the nuts separate for just in case. I don't think I will need them any more.

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

SD

I don't think those saw screws are split nuts. They look to be the Glover pattern. Why are you looking for nickel plated brass? While such screws exist, they were not commonly used (just a few top end models, mainly in America) and rarely on back saws. If you have them on that saw, they may be ring-ins. The best source of old saw screws would be the flea markets. More recent saws tend to have steel hardware and later saws again have press fit hardware.

Regards
Paul

I couldn't read the brand, but clearly British with that massive brass back and the fact you purchased in the UK.

No. they were the dome head screws.

They're definitely nickel layer over brass. Maybe they weren't original. Who knows considering what the seller did to bodge it together...

Originally Posted by Cklett

If that helps you. I had a look through my left overs from saw restoring.

SNIP

Thx mate. I've, since the original post, have decided to go a different direction. I turned a couple copper screws with split nuts and made a new handle out of NSW Rosewood, finished in shellac. Since the brass back and plate are, and look, old I beat everything up to match. The copper screws will tarnish and settle in well against the NSW Rosewood...

Some will cry foul!!! You can't age things; that's a sin, you're a fraud... Bla bla bla... It's my saw, so I can do as I like [insert sticking tongue out emoji here] lol

SD

I think your saw has come up well and indeed you have every right to treat it as you wish. In any case, it may well be that the saw was "cobbled" up right from it's very beginnings.

Now I can see the maker, F. Fardon, I looked up the name in Simon Barley's book on British saws. The entry indicates that the saw dates from about 1930 and has quite a deal of skullduggery surrounding it. George Collier of G.R. Collier "sort of" owned it but with some stock obtained slightly illegally from wherever he was working. George did a bunk with the stock and sold it to F. Fardon. Fardon in turn sold to the Pickerell family and after that all references were lost. This information came from George's grandson, John Collier, who now operates Monument Tools.

So, you may have a piece of back saw (or at the very least, the brass back) infamy in your possession.



Regards
Paul

I'll hold onto the handle and screws for now. I'll try soldering them back together and repair the handle at some point. Would be nice to keep it whole, if possible, for the historical aspect at least.

In some ways it wasn't a bad thing that happened. It always bugged me why, as I thought, someone could continually sharpen a saw so the teeth and back were so out of parallel... Having never been a western saw user till recently, I didn't know you could simply knock the back off and reset it all. I suspect that it's been bashed a couple times, and that's moved the back and broke the screws. After finding the broken screws and cracking the handle open I figured I had nothing to lose so preceded to really pull it apart and set about making a nice saw. Turned out pretty good, though the handle is a bit boring, lacks the visual appeal of the modern high-end saws. After a sharpen and set it cuts nicely.

SD

The slope of the saw plate relative to the back has been a subject of much discussion. Conjecture was that it was deliberate, although for what reason has never really been identified.

A Spear and Jackson catalogue provided what I think is the most logical explanation. It pointed out that the maker's stamp on the back (brass back in this instance) was punched after the back was on the saw. It can't be done off saw as it closes up the fold. Anyhow, it provides a "pivot" point at the stamp location and over the years, which would be approaching one hundred in your case, the blade moves a little when knocked or dropped and goes out of parallel.

Regards
Paul

I quite like what you did to the saw. The copper gives it a nice look.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by orraloon

I quite like what you did to the saw. The copper gives it a nice look.
Regards
John

John

It is certainly different as I have never seen copper used commercially. Brass, steel, nickel plated brass and aluminium have all been used at various times.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

SD

The slope of the saw plate relative to the back has been a subject of much discussion. Conjecture was that it was deliberate, although for what reason has never really been identified.

A Spear and Jackson catalogue provided what I think is the most logical explanation. It pointed out that the maker's stamp on the back (brass back in this instance) was punched after the back was on the saw. It can't be done off saw as it closes up the fold. Anyhow, it provides a "pivot" point at the stamp location and over the years, which would be approaching one hundred in your case, the blade moves a little when knocked or dropped and goes out of parallel.

Regards
Paul

After rehabbing it I have the hunch, though it shows some age and a fair bit of bashing around, I don't think it's been used much. The teeth were very dull and not filed well but they were uniform in spacing and height...

Ya, the back going out of parallel doesn't make functional sense. I look to the top of the saw to make sure I'm flat as I cut to the line.

And wouldn't ya know it!!! I have an old carcass saw I bought in the UK and haven't used it till now either. Though, since I was now an ExPeRt in backsaws , I thought I'd pull the one below apart and reset the back. Only to find one of the screws had suffered the same fate and been glued back in... Turned a new screw, out of brass this time, reset the back, and gave it a sharpen and set. The old one has the three dots punched into it.