Thread: Check here every week for a new antique item from Arthur's tool box!

Here is a link to the next installment. posted 16th December 2015. Keyhole saw or Pad saw.

Here is a little Christmas greeting from me and Barry the pug.

Hi David

Merry Christmas to you and Barry -- and the rest of your family.



re Episode 4
Looking at Arthur's plane, I think it's actually a side rebate plane.
an ingenious design and beautifully made.

you are an exceedingly fortunate grandson.
If you get the opportunity have a look at the Lost Art Press book on the Studley Tool chest.
In many ways in your grandfather's chest you have an equally valuable collection.

thanks for the updates

Thank you Ian for your response and all the best season greetings to you as well.
Re Studley's chest, that is a massive comparison and doubt that Arthur's collection would come near to such a famous one as Studley's. However, I do take your point regarding value...maybe to me and my family, or to Australian folk who admire Arthur's kit. The fact that it is a living memory, of particular interest to me was his union cards, pay rise etc. I have even more history about Arthur that my mother wrote down for me when she saw I had an interest in the man as well as the tools. A couple of letters from the around 1970-1980 detail things that she as a young girl could remember that Arthur marvelled at, flying machines for one! Arthur was my mother's grandfather. A tragedy for her was to lose both her parents and Arthur within 12 months of each other when she was 20.

Next edition here. https://youtu.be/2F_GSaL7TC4

Next one here. https://youtu.be/E3Ct6qQFKBw

Originally Posted by Dave Stanton

Next one here. https://youtu.be/E3Ct6qQFKBw

Great video and interesting tool once again. Just a minor correction of terminology. What you were working on was a trench or dado, not a rebate. The rebate or rabbet is at the edge of the piece. They both have the same derivation but rabbet is an older term than rebate.

Thanks again for the series. Fascinating.

John

Thanks for the clarification John. That is the great thing of community knowledge which forums like these foster!
May I ask what word rabbet and rebate derived from?

reference: Rabbet | Definition of Rabbet by Merriam-Webster

Definition of rabbet

Popularity: Bottom 50% of words

• : a channel, groove, or recess cut out of the edge or face of a surface; especially : one intended to receive another member (as a panel)
  
• 
  Origin of rabbet
  
  Middle English rabet, perhaps from Middle French rabat act of forcing down, from Old French rabattre to force down, fold over, reduce — more at rebate
  
  First Known Use: 14th century
  
  

Rabbet | Definition of Rabbet by Merriam-Webster

english pronunciation and spelling of Rebate sounds just as it is written, which makes perfect sense to most english speaking people, derived from the UK, the word rebate applies to many things not just a part of a woodwork housing joint. old fashion or even new french if they understand the word correctly is often spelt Rabbet but pronounced, albeit with a french accent, that sounds exactly the same as the english spoken word Rebate. Americans have a long long history of changing pronunciation to sound out each letter as they see it, OR simply change the spelling so it makes more sense to them , i am not saying its good or bad correct or not, just that the americans when they speak are generally taught to sound out each letter, they speak very clearly, using each phonetic in the word. if the word doesn't make sense to them they have a history to simply change the spelling i.e. Color vs Colour or change the pronunciation. which they have done for along time with Rabbet, its a rebate

perhaps the whole Canadian/french thing muddled it up for them as well. in Aussie terms it has always been known for all our history according to all old books i have that go back as far a as they can as a housing joint, trench or rebate, grooves in some instances.

so when i see a Utube with an american speaking about a Rabbet joint , so what! but when i see an aussie TV show, with an aussie that says he was trained by englishman telling everyone its a Dado or rabbet it just doesn't make sense . Dado is a whole other thing again, and only became into normal vernacular when aussies started buying dado blades from the US, before that they were called trenching machines etc

cheers
chippy

English etymology is a complex and tricky business at the best of times. The word rebate/rabbet is one of the simpler. The reason for many of the differences in US English is due to the time that the North Americas were first populated. Many terms such as rabbet fell into disuse over the centuries in the UK but remained in common parlance in the North Americas. It also had to do with the peoples that migrated and where they came from. The same goes for music and custom. All of these varied by region, often dramatically through out the UK and over the years many of these differences have averaged out and some terms which are now in disuse in the UK are still common terms in the US and Canada.

As for spelling it is again a lot more complex. Modern spelling in the US is due to the excellent work of Noah Webster published in 1828 but he was at times constrained by political forces. In the UK we have Dr Johnson's work of 1755 to thank. Many of the spellings were more or less random selections from the common spellings at the time. Prior to their works spelling was more set by custom and convention which varied considerably by region class and personal preference.

Even today we have the evolution of language where terms and words change over time and conventions change just as it has through out history. There is nothing inherently "correct" about the words and spelling we have, it is simply how we spell and say things. There is a common modern mistake that man should serve language. Indeed language should serve man and if it needs to change then change it. Language is not a sacred cow. On the other hand we need to understand how language is used and understood to communicate properly.

John

Wow, stirred up a hornets nest!
After reading the dictionary meaning I thought that rabbet was probably the more correct term. I am not overly concerned to taking sides. Dado, trench, slot, rabbet or rebate. Side or edge rabbet plane.....my little Stanley No98 is good at planing the vertical surface of an opening that is too narrow to do it in any other manner.
Page 358 of Dictionary of woodworking tools by R. A. Salaman states .
"Plane, Side Rabbet.
These planes are intended for trimming or widening the sides of rebates or grooves" He goes on into more detail but it looks to me that he hedged his bets and used both rabbet and rebate terms.
I apologise if I have upset anyone with using the term dado....but the term is here to stay like it or not.

Originally Posted by Dave Stanton

Wow, stirred up a hornets nest!
After reading the dictionary meaning I thought that rabbet was probably the more correct term. I am not overly concerned to taking sides. Dado, trench, slot, rabbet or rebate. Side or edge rabbet plane.....my little Stanley No98 is good at planing the vertical surface of an opening that is too narrow to do it in any other manner.
Page 358 of Dictionary of woodworking tools by R. A. Salaman states .
"Plane, Side Rabbet.
These planes are intended for trimming or widening the sides of rebates or grooves" He goes on into more detail but it looks to me that he hedged his bets and used both rabbet and rebate terms.
I apologise if I have upset anyone with using the term dado....but the term is here to stay like it or not.

no apologies necessary, so is SMS abbreviated communication here to stay, like it or not, but doesn't mean we have to use it if we don't wish too. it doesn't upset me. I just like to throw out the info less we all fall in line like little sheep and forget our roots and history. there are an awful lot of dictionaries printed for the american market so if sheer weight of numbers is an argument that one is correct over the other i am not sure how that plays out with asia , chinese, etc etc with a myriad of topics

i don't think he R.A. Salman is hedging his bets at all, the tool he mentioned was probably purchased, marketed to, made by or owned by an american company, duh (Stanley of course), so its labeled a Rabbet plane (which when spoken in french sounds just like rebate anyway). the author is English or at least english trained (i think he was born in england) so he calls the tool as it is used for, clearing out rebates, as his training has taught him. if a rebate tool in the old days was made in(or for) Oz or england (say by record) then it would be called a rebate plane (still are), trenching etc. i have machines made in 90's that are called trenching (marketed for Aust, pretty sure you can still buy them new as trenching machines), but , if i want a new blade, depending on where i buy it from (where it was marketed to e.g. nth America) it might be called a Dado blade, or just a dado blade because they can't be bothered with the extra expense of different packaging. just saying is all. american TV and by extension Utube and the vast population tend to overrun everyone else, thats just globalisation as they call it in Uni. americas biggest export is TV they say and has enormous influence. so i offer this tid bit of information as food for thought. and though i agree almost entirely with Yanis, it doesn't mean i am going to start mimicking every american word or phrase i hear. its still nice to go places around the world and enjoy their culture, their speech and practices.

even local in OZ its still nice to have some differences between eastern and western states, banana kicks, pie floaters, stobie poles, yo yo biscuits, fruchocs, the list goes on forever. all things change we drive i30 cars, speak on iPhones and every other thing has an 'i' in front of it, if they start putting iRabbet planes on the market good grief. anyways i just think it odd that an aussie can make a plane and proudly call it australian, great for shaping and cutting australian timbers, the plane itself is made of australian timber and then called it an american name, obviously wanting to appeal to that market i would assume, no big deal to me, just odd or disappointing that such a promentant person count make a small effort to keep some aussie culture going. anyways like i said if i am watching a woodworkshow on community TV for aussies i find it very odd that american terms are used instead of ausssies terms. american weight and measures are so antiquated its crazy, even the british before changing to decimal updated their imperial system (gallons and few other things) but the americans still use the same old ones. so that baffles me as well

cheers
chippy