Thread: DawnPost Drill - Dating Versions

Originally Posted by 2blast67

I went down to the shed and dug it out and blew the dust off. Well it is a dawn 611. OK some photo`s.
010.jpg012.jpg011.jpg014.jpg013.jpg
You are correct about the wheels. The outside wheel is an idler where you could put the belt when not using the drill. The inside wheel is the driver. Put the belt on inside wheel to drill.
015.jpg016.jpg017.jpg

Cool thanks for sharing.

From what we have learned in this thread is that yours is the more common version as it is a later version. So more are around. It looks from the photos to be complete and I would say by comparison average condition. What is in my opinion rare, maybe very rare is the extended shaft and bet drive. Does it make it more valuable, only if you could find a collector to the general buyer might be less appealing.

Reasons I say it is a later model are it matches the details as laid out in the thread for, feed screw cover with boss, solid feed wheel, tailed cam, etc




I assume it runs/moves freely. Do you have a belt?

As to your early question on value. I'd say you may get $40-90 Dollars. If you were patient and took it to a few big swap meets or put it on ebay with a reserve price you could get the $90. It be sad to see it end up as a steam punk lamp in some trendy apartment though.

This is all just my opinion and I am no expert or tool collector & I have only been researching these for a few months and watching ebay and the meets for probably under 12months.

Vann might have a differing opinion?

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Cool thanks for sharing.

From what we have learned in this thread is that yours is the more common version as it is a later version. So more are around. It looks from the photos to be complete and I would say by comparison average condition. What is in my opinion rare, maybe very rare is the extended shaft and bet drive. Does it make it more valuable, only if you could find a collector to the general buyer might be less appealing.

Reasons I say it is a later model are it matches the details as laid out in the thread for, feed screw cover with boss, solid feed wheel, tailed cam, etc



I assume it runs/moves freely. Do you have a belt?


As to your early question on value. I'd say you may get $40-90 Dollars. If you were patient and took it to a few big swap meets or put it on ebay with a reserve price you could get the $90. It be sad to see it end up as a steam punk lamp in some trendy apartment though.

This is all just my opinion and I am no expert or tool collector & I have only been researching these for a few months and watching ebay and the meets for probably under 12months.

Vann might have a differing opinion?

It seems to operate ok. Needs a bit of a clean up but everything moves ok. I don`t have a belt.
What was there actual function? Did they have special bits that they used as there is no actual chuck. (as we have now.)
Also we have the base plate which appears to be able to move out of the way. Underneath is a fork like base. not sure what that`s for.
I planned to mount it in my shed somewhere more for visual than functional.

Originally Posted by 2blast67

What was there actual function?

They were just a very basic drill press. Known as "Blacksmith's Drills" or "Post Drills". "Blacksmith's" because they don't work to fine tolerances, more to the slightly rough and ready tolerances that blacksmiths work to. "Post" because they are designed to be fixed to a post in your barn or workshop (this gives clearance for the wheel on the left hand side, and for the extendable crank handle on the right hand side). When wall mounting, a 2" thick piece of timber gives clearance for the flywheel, but still restricts the crank handle.

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Did they have special bits that they used as there is no actual chuck. (as we have now.)

These drills used bits with a set diameter shank. They would accept 1/2", 5/8" or 41/64" shank bits. As far as I know, the most common size was 1/2", and I think Dawn only made 1/2" models. The 1/2" shank has a flat on one side and the bit is tightened by a bolt that engages this flat. This forces the bit against the other side of the chuck wall and so the drill bit may run eccentrically. Most people fit their post drlls with a Jacobs chuck (on a 1/2" shank) so that normal bits can be used (but if the Jacobs chuck is mounted eccentrically....).

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Also we have the base plate which appears to be able to move out of the way. Underneath is a fork like base. not sure what that`s for.

The fork is, I believe, to hold spokes for wheels. Just quite how that all works I don't know...

I don't know if that pulley shaft is standard, or a user mod. Does the paint on the pulleys match the rest of the drill exactly? My second post drill (not a Dawn) has slightly extended shaft which I think is a user mod to mount a vee'd pulley (it was probably powered by a washing machine motor at some stage), but yours looks to be a properly engineered flat belt drive, for a line shaft - so it may well be original.

Nice drill BTW. That'll look nice in your shed (and all the local kids will want to turn the handle ).

Cheers, Vann.

[QUOTE=Vann;1664780]They were just a very basic drill press. Known as "Blacksmith's Drills" or "Post Drills". "Blacksmith's" because they don't work to fine tolerances, more to the slightly rough and ready tolerances that blacksmiths work to. "Post" because they are designed to be fixed to a post in your barn or workshop (this gives clearance for the wheel on the left hand side, and for the extendable crank handle on the right hand side). Mounting these on a 2" thick piece of timber gives clearance for the flywheel, but still restricts the crank handle.

These drills used bits with a set diameter shank. They would accept 1/2", 5/8" or 41/64" shank bits. As far as I know, the most common size was 1/2", and I think Dawn only made 1/2" models. The 1/2" shank has a flat on one side and the bit is tightened by a bolt that engages this flat. This forces the bit against the other side of the chuck wall and so the drill bit may run eccentrically. Most people fit their post drlls with a Jacobs chuck (on a 1/2" shank) so that normal bits can be used (but if the Jacobs chuck is mounted eccentrically....).

The fork is, I believe, to hold spokes for wheels. Just quite how that all works I don't know...

I don't know if that pulley shaft is standard, or a user mod. Does the paint on the pulleys match the rest of the drill exactly? My second post drill (not a Dawn) has slightly extended shaft which I think is a user mod to mount a vee'd pulley (it was probably powered by a washing machine motor at some stage), but yours looks to be a properly engineered flat belt drive, for a line shaft - so it may well be original.

Nice drill BTW. That'll look nice in your shed (and all the local kids will want to turn the handle ).

Cheers, Vann.[/QUOTE

Thanks
Pulley appears to be original

Later model 611, looks good in the photos.

old hand drill press

$85.00
Athelstone SA 5076

old hand drill press | Hand Tools | Gumtree Australia Campbelltown Area - Athelstone

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Did they have special bits that they used as there is no actual chuck.

Blacksmith's bits...

Blacksmiths Bits1s.jpgBlacksmiths Bits4s.jpg

The top three were specifically made for this sort of chuck, with the flats machined at the time of manufacture. The bottom bit looks to be a reduced shank (1/2" shank) bit that has a user made flat ground (very roughly) on a grinder of some sort.

DSEL, any chance of a close-up photo of the feed wheel and knob? Is the knob wooden or cast iron?

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by Vann

DSEL, any chance of a close-up photo of the feed wheel and knob? Is the knob wooden or cast iron?

Cheers, Vann.

I am hoping to get down the garage and take a look at the molasses soaking parts today, see if I can find the little ball end in the blackness. It is a cast end with a countersunk bolt insid, that screws into the handle of the feed wheel.

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Also we have the base plate which appears to be able to move out of the way. Underneath is a fork like base. not sure what that`s for.

From Canedy-Otto M'f'g Co.* No.8 catalogue:

"Wheel Rims can be drilled by removing table and using the forked support as a wheel holder."

I can only assume that the fork goes around the wheel spoke.

*Canedy-Otto are/were the Chicago (USA) based manufacturer of Western Chief post drills (amoung other types of machinery)

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by Vann

From Canedy-Otto M'f'g Co.* No.8 catalogue:

"Wheel Rims can be drilled by removing table and using the forked support as a wheel holder."

I can only assume that the fork goes around the wheel spoke.

*Canedy-Otto are/were the Chicago (USA) based manufacturer of Western Chief post drills (amoung other types of machinery)

Cheers, Vann.

Thanks Vann.
Now just have to find somewhere in the shed to mount it

Just noticed that the bevelled cog on the spindle is different also.

The older one I have has a recess and the newer one is solid.

Dawn smaller b4.jpgDawn smaller b5.jpg




Vann here is the feedscrew wheel ball and complete
Dawn smaller b6.jpgDawn smaller b7.jpgDawn smaller b8.jpg




Found a photo of the bearings in the old drill, as you can see the fibre washer was just swapped for some balls
Dawn smaller1.jpg


The newer one with fibre washer below;
Dawn smaller b2.jpgDawn smaller b3.jpg


Some old photos of drills at Sovereign Hill
Dawn smaller A1.jpgDawn smaller A2.jpgDawn smaller A3.jpgDawn smaller A4.jpg

I've noticed various terms when describing parts of post drills. So I looked at some catalogues.

Dawn refer to the gears as cogs; the shaft with the chuck as the spindle; and the long shaft, or leg, that holds the table as the pillar.

Buffalo Forge refer to the gears as gears. Canedy-Otto have a parts section at the end of their No.8 catalogue, with lots of parts names. Gears are gears; the shaft with chuck is the mandrel, the threaded rod above the mandrel is the feed screw, the leg is a table rest shaft; and the rocker arm or auto-feed arm is the feed arm. The crank arm with handle is simply called the crank. Gears are broken down to things like bevel gear and crank gear, though I think the latter is confusing because the 616 has two crank gears (probably known as small crank gear and large crank gear).

Generally I like the Aussie terms better ('though mandrel is a lovely word )

So I hope you guys agree with cogs, spindle and pillar.

Therefore...

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Just noticed that the drive cam on the main shaft is different also.

would be "...bevelled cog on the spindle...", and

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I was cleaning the drive shaft with some sand...

would be "...cleaning the spindle..."

waddayathink?

Cheers, Vann.

Here we call them Post Drills or Black Smith Drills. They refer to them in the UK as Pillar drills.


Modern ones we refer to pedestal drills.



So referring to the

"and the long shaft, or leg, that holds the table as the pillar."

Sounds right.

I prefer spindle to mandrel.



I guess there would be a gear and two cogs. There is the spindle bevel cog and the crank bevel cog. The other is a small gear. mmmmm cog/gear I guess they are interchangeable.


Be great to have an exploded diagram of the drill.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Just noticed that the bevelled cog on the spindle is different also...

Dawn smaller A4.jpg

Thanks for all the photos, much appreciated.

That last post drill, marked "Advance No.12" is (I think) by Silver & Denning (who make beautiful post drills ).

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by 2blast67

The outside wheel is an idler where you could put the belt when not using the drill. The inside wheel is the driver. Put the belt on inside wheel to drill.
015.jpg016.jpg017.jpg

Hi again Blast. May I ask, what width and diameter are the two "belt" wheels?

Cheers, Vann.