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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    Attachment 276556
    Okay, the dimensions in the area of the coupling, on my "fibre washer" model are as follows (measured in metric using a very-near):

    Spindle top end: the groove for the split washer is 3.1mm (<1/8") wide, and is 4.65mm (3/16") from the top the end of the spindle.

    Feed Screw: the "collar" is 14.10mm wide, with the bottom end of the feed screw poking through 3.90mm. The end is not flat, but has two chamfers - the lower of which almost comes to a shallow point. Total length of the feed screw (ignoring where the parting tool left a small boss) is 141.5mm.

    Coupler: is bored from the top, 28.5mm diameter, to a depth of ~37mm. The spindle hole through the bottom is 22.85mm diameter.

    Fibre Washer: 3.18mm (1/8" thick) x 26.7mm diameter, and showing no sign of wear.

    HTH.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Thanks, Vann.
    I will be in the garage tomorrow morning with my vernier to see how mine compares. I will try to get a photo or two to show the convexity of the thrust plates.
    Regards, Mike.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    Attachment 276556
    Okay, the dimensions in the area of the coupling, on my "fibre washer" model are as follows (measured in metric using a very-near):

    Spindle top end: the groove for the split washer is 3.1mm (<1/8") wide, and is 4.65mm (3/16") from the top the end of the spindle. My spindle is very different; see photos

    Feed Screw: the "collar" is 14.10mm wide, with the bottom end of the feed screw poking through 3.90mm. The end is not flat, but has two chamfers - the lower of which almost comes to a shallow point. Total length of the feed screw (ignoring where the parting tool left a small boss) is 141.5mm. Again, see photos for the end of feed screw and collar.

    Coupler: is bored from the top, 28.5mm diameter, to a depth of ~37mm. The spindle hole through the bottom is 22.85mm diameter. My coupler diameters are similar, but the 28.5mm extends to a depth of 33mm. The coupler is 40mm long over all, so a 37mm depth would have left very little meat at the bottom.

    Fibre Washer: 3.18mm (1/8" thick) x 26.7mm diameter, and showing no sign of wear. This is where mine is completely different. When I first looked at it, I saw only the two thrust plates, as previously described. I find now that there is a thrust bearing below the two concave/convex plates. Its lower side sits on the split washer, with the nose of the spindle projecting into the centre hole of the bearing. The thrust plates sit with their convex side uppermost, so that the outer edge of the plates is riding on the top outer edge of the thrust bearing. There is no fibre washer, no bearing between the thrust plates, and no neat flat top on the spindle. The two half washers show a fair bit of wear, as does the nose of the spindle and inner, lower part of the connector, just above the minor diameter. The bearing is in fair condition. I went to my friendly bearing retailer to see if he had a replacement, but was disappointed. The bearing measures 1 1/8" outer diam, 5/8" inner diam, 5/16" thick. Nearest thrust bearing he had in stock was 1 3/8" diam. I suppose the question to be answered now is whether this was a standard set-up, or whether it is a modification by some previous owner. However, there is no sign on the rest of the drill that it is anything but original, as far as I can see!

    Regards, Mike.
    HTH.

    Cheers, Vann.
    PS. Photos are not in any particular order. I am not sure how to get them into the sequence I wanted!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #63
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    One way to determine it possibly is to find out when enclosed bering cases first appeared if it is post 1950 it is definitely a user mod.

    Can you tell me if the washer with the dimple in the middle, matches it's marked circle to the end diameter of anything? or is this possibly sign of where the ball bearings ran?

    Also I note your coupler the flange on the rear that guides it and stops rotation is very short mine with the A on it runs the full length of the coupler.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    One way to determine it possibly is to find out when enclosed bering cases first appeared if it is post 1950 it is definitely a user mod.

    Can you tell me if the washer with the dimple in the middle, matches it's marked circle to the end diameter of anything? or is this possibly sign of where the ball bearings ran?

    Also I note your coupler the flange on the rear that guides it and stops rotation is very short mine with the A on it runs the full length of the coupler.
    I am unsure about which of the plates was uppermost when I first dismantled the assembly. They were very greasy, and fell on the floor when I separated the collar from the connector. I am sure that the convex side was positioned upwards, so I guess that the marked circle could have been caused by the end of the feed screw, which is quite flat, but has a corresponding pimple at the centre. I'm guessing, but think that pimple to dimple seems logical.
    As far as the bearing case is concerned, it is a fairly crude device. It has been pressed to shape, rather than machined, and has no part number. The guy at the bearing shop thought it unlikely that it was an 'off-the-shelf' bearing, but more likely to have been fabricated for a specific application.

  6. #65
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    Interesting Mike. I would guess (and I emphasis "Guess") that that's a user mod. I can't see how the half washers are retained. It looks as though, if you grabbed the chuck and pulled down hard, the spindle would pull through the bottom of the coupler - leaving the half washers and bearing in the coupler

    Spindle1.jpgSpindle2.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    ...I note your coupler the flange on the rear that guides it and stops rotation is very short mine with the A on it runs the full length of the coupler.
    Thrust%20parts.jpg


    Mine is tapered like Mike's (Mike's shown), but mine has the thickened wall where the tapped hole for the set screw goes.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post


    Thrust%20parts.jpg


    Mine is tapered like Mike's (Mike's shown), but mine has the thickened wall where the tapped hole for the set screw goes.

    Cheers, Vann.

    So there are basically three couplers we know of.

    1. Mine with the A on the front
    2. Mike's
    3. Vann's with the boss on the side. My others are like this I think.


    I'm guessing that would have been the order of production not looking at any other features.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  8. #67
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    I am thinking we should draw up a table with the parts and compare who's has which parts and then see if we can find a structure for the order of changes.

    So who have we got so far?

    Dsel74, I have 3x 611
    Vann
    Mspil
    2blast67 - Beltdrive
    boringgeoff ??


    I can't believe that is all the contributors off the forum or the 71 people following this thread. Surely some of you have a Dawn Post drill???
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I made up some labeled parts diagrams, please feel free to point out if I have mislabelled anything. I think I stole the photos from Vann's resto.
    Yup, you did (all good).

    Attachment 277013

    Okay, just for the purpose of discussion, here's my thoughts:
    1 Drive Cog - Crank Cog vrs Drive Cog - Drive Cog is good;
    4 Feed Cam Follower - elsewhere called Feed Arm, but I prefer Auto-Feed Arm;
    6 Adjuster Bolt - gotta find a more descriptive name - how about Auto-Feed Adjuster Bolt;
    7 Ratchet Feed Wheel - how about just Feed Wheel, as it also functions without ratchet;
    8 Ratchet - how about Pawl (doesn't it take two to ratchet?);
    10 Fly-Wheel Cog - others call it Idle/Idler Cog, but I prefer Fly-Wheel Cog;
    11 Main Body Mounting Lugs - just Mounting Lugs;
    14 Table Support - Yoke?
    19 Chuck Drill Locking Bolt - Chuck Locking Bolt or Bit Locking Bolt?
    24 Feed Screw Coupler - maybe Feed Screw & Spindle Coupler or just Coupler?

    23 Fly-Wheel Axle or Fly-Wheel Shaft - I think I prefer the latter.

    Also missing are:

    Feed Arm Stub Axle or Shaft;
    Drive Cog Retaining Washer;
    Drive Cog Retaining Split-Pin;
    Drive Cog Retaining Screw (for flat-head screw models);
    Feed Wheel Locking Bolt or Screw;
    Fly-Wheel Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Fly-Wheel Cog Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Yoke Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Table Wingnut;
    Foot or Pillar Foot (missing on mine).

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    ...So who have we got so far?.
    Dsel74, I have 3x 611
    Vann
    Mspil
    2blast67 - Beltdrive
    boringgeoff ???? (I think geoff's is Buffalo Forge or Champion Blower & Forge)
    blooh (only ever posted once, so probably no longer on WWF);
    jhovel

    Would it be breaking forum rules to PM each of the above?

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  11. #70
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    1 Drive Cog - Crank Cog vrs Drive Cog - Drive Cog is good;
    4 Feed Cam Follower - elsewhere called Feed Arm, but I prefer Auto-Feed Arm;
    • Feed cam follower was taken from another listing.


    6 Adjuster Bolt - gotta find a more descriptive name - how about Auto-Feed Adjuster Bolt;
    7 Ratchet Feed Wheel - how about just Feed Wheel, as it also functions without ratchet;
    8 Ratchet - how about Pawl
    • A hinged or pivoted device adapted to fit into a notch of a ratchet wheel to impart forward motion or prevent backward motion.
    • A pivoted curved bar or lever whose free end engages with the teeth of a cogwheel or ratchet so that the wheel or ratchet can only turn or move one way.
    • A common component of a ratchet



    10 Fly-Wheel Cog - others call it Idle/Idler Cog, but I prefer Fly-Wheel Cog;
    11 Main Body Mounting Lugs - just Mounting Lugs;
    14 Table Support - Yoke?
    • Can't find a relevant deffinition of yoke other than harnessing two oxen etc together.


    19 Chuck Drill Locking Bolt - Chuck Locking Bolt or Bit Locking Bolt?
    • It's not locking the chuck so will try to keep it clear


    24 Feed Screw Coupler - maybe Feed Screw & Spindle Coupler or just Coupler?

    23 Fly-Wheel Axle or Fly-Wheel Shaft - I think I prefer the latter.

    Also missing are:

    Feed Arm Stub Axle or Shaft;
    Drive Cog Retaining Washer; <----Can't see it may need to be in a sub assembly photo
    Drive Cog Retaining Split-Pin; <----Item 2
    Drive Cog Retaining Screw (for flat-head screw models); <----To Be Shown in a variation diagram
    Feed Wheel Locking Bolt or Screw;
    Fly-Wheel Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Fly-Wheel Cog Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Table Support Locking Bolt/Screw;
    Table Wingnut & Bolt;
    Foot or Pillar Foot (missing on mine).<----Not in photo to label
    FLY-WHEEL <----Not in photo to label
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  12. #71
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    Guys can you please PM me your email address so I can send you the excel spread sheet with the table of info so we can track the differences.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    FLY-WHEEL <----Not in photo to label
    Fly-Wheel, FLY-WHEEL !!! How could I forget the Fly-Wheel?

    Cheers, Vann
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    Interesting Mike. I would guess (and I emphasis "Guess") that that's a user mod. I can't see how the half washers are retained. It looks as though, if you grabbed the chuck and pulled down hard, the spindle would pull through the bottom of the coupler - leaving the half washers and bearing in the coupler

    Spindle1.jpgSpindle2.jpg


    Thrust%20parts.jpg


    Mine is tapered like Mike's (Mike's shown), but mine has the thickened wall where the tapped hole for the set screw goes.

    Cheers, Vann.
    I find myself asking "Why would you want to pull down hard on the chuck"? Further, as my drill seems to be the only one with this peculiar set-up, and I promise on my solemn word of honour that I will never exert downward forces on the chuck, it should not be a problem. However, the natural forces when in use will push the top of the spindle against the half-washers, and those against the bottom of the bearing, thus keeping the whole shebang in good order. (At least, I hope so).

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Guys can you please PM me your email address so I can send you the excel spread sheet with the table of info so we can track the differences.
    I had a quick look at the spreadsheet. I reckon it will take me about a month to fill it in. Particularly as my head is spinning with the discussion on the various opinions as to nomenclature. Us old blokes with galloping Alzheimers have to take things slowly. Might be easier to sell the drill! Nevertheless, PM re email is on the way.

  16. #75
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    Ok I have a bone to pick with you guys. There is a major component that no on has mentioned yet… I went to assemble my drill today and did some of the measurements and found it still won't work.

    The part I'm talking about is the "Internally threaded feed drive sleeve". The feed wheel clamps on to this sleeve and that in turn drives the feedscrew up and down. How did you guys miss this???? I'll tell you how I missed it because on mine it like everything else was seized and there is a little node on the side which i thought was a pin holding it. So today while assembling it I realised the is must be mean't to move and checked one on the newer ones and there quite loose. Tried some G15 and a big hammer and all I achieved was flaring the top making life worse

    Not really annoyed at you guys I'm at this drill for still giving me grief!!!

    Also had a small win and got the bolt out of the crank cog. How ever the bolt won't got back in to the threaded hole in the main casting . Tried to use some blue and file the threads but can't get it to take. I don't have any TAPS & DIES that ib to clean the threads up.


    Something that this pointed out to me is that all the threads should be imperial as the drills were made from 1920-50 and the metric system came in around 1968.




    Ok now I'm off my rant, here are some photos.




    Crank Cog Bolt and small Washer...
    Dawn Drill Bolt1.jpgDawn Drill Bolt2.jpgDawn Drill Bolt5.jpgDawn Drill Bolt3.jpgDawn Drill Bolt4.jpg





    I think there is three bolt sizes
    Dawn Drill Bolt6.jpg



    Also wondering why the shaft is sooooo long and has that gap? The newer ones don't seem to have this.
    Dawn Drill Bolt7.jpgDawn Drill Bolt8.jpgDawn Drill Bolt9.jpg
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

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