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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by auscab View Post
    This looks like a good buy .
    Missing its original cast iron table by the looks of it , that increases the depth of a rip cut though . A sheet of 6 or 8mm steel sheet would be good for a new table.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/antique-M...item20f22e8886

    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.

    The rocker etc is missing also with the table so no angle/tilt adjustment.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

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  3. #137
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    I'd like to get this but no idea about transport
    http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/old-n...saw/1063697099
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  4. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I'd like to get this but no idea about transport
    http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/old-n...saw/1063697099
    That's real nice , If I were you I would ring a carrier company and pay them to pick it up . I'm surprised its still sitting there at that price.

  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post

    The rocker etc is missing also with the table so no angle/tilt adjustment.

    As a Cabinet Maker I have never needed to tilt a table on a band saw and I don't think I will ever need to .
    I think if you were a Pattern Maker there could be a need for it .

    Its a good way to gain some ripping height .

  6. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.
    Are you sure it is a different company?? Mcpherson's Pty Ltd was founded by Thomas McPherson in 1860, and they were located at 536-566 Collins st Melbourne.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  7. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    Are you sure it is a different company?? Mcpherson's Pty Ltd was founded by Thomas McPherson in 1860, and they were located at 536-566 Collins st Melbourne.

    Cheers,

    Camo

    I have both MchPerson's & Thomas McPherson catalogs I would have to see if there was competing catalogs of the same state & time. There was previous discussion in another thread about it. We have resident experts on here that could clarify it further, I just going by my recollection of what has been said previously so NO, not 100% sure.


    pic's of Thomas McPhersons bandsaw-013-jpg
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  8. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I have both MchPerson's & Thomas McPherson catalogs I would have to see if there was competing catalogs of the same state & time. There was previous discussion in another thread about it. We have resident experts on here that could clarify it further, I just going by my recollection of what has been said previously so NO, not 100% sure.


    pic's of Thomas McPhersons bandsaw-013-jpg
    Dale,

    I wouldn't consider myself an expert either, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.
    is a pretty bold statement to make, and in my opinion should only be used if you are certain, I would hate to see the waters muddied any more than they already are. As you may remember, I tried to help out with looking into L.S. Barker, and in the process crossed paths with McPherson's Pty Ltd a few times. When you made that statement, it just didn't sit well with me, I wasn't sure why at the time, but I felt I at least needed to question it.

    With time to consider why my spidey sense is tingling, this is what makes me so uneasy about your bold statement:

    * look at this post for this 1910 catalogue

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...89#post1760289

    Note the fact that it says "Thomas McPherson & Son" and lists the address as 582-588 Collins St Melbourne

    * Look at this post for a 1912 catalogue

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...88#post1760288

    Note the fact that it says "McPherson's" established 1860 and the McPherson's font we are all familiar with, and it lists 2 addresses, one being 582-588 Collins St Melbourne

    Now I know that Graeme said:

    Quote Originally Posted by anglesmith View Post
    This is not McPherson's but Thomas McPherson a different firm, notice that there is no "s ! It is some sort of family offshoot I have read the history some where? I will try and find it
    Graeme
    If this is what you are referring to when you say

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I just going by my recollection of what has been said previously
    but he was referring to a much later catalogue.

    Hence my concerns.

    Dale, I hope what I have just said does not come across the wrong way, but it's just the wording you used in your initial statement certainly sounds like you are 100% sure and their is "Proof" and I just don't think at the moment that is the case. For me to leave it unchallenged means that soon your post is locked and people in the future who may be doing their own research, may come across your initial statement. Would you perhaps consider changing your initial statement (before your post is locked), obviously they are your words and it is your post, but it might be worth considering.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  9. #143
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    Not to be argumentative but the item in question is badged as a Thomas McPherson, not McPherson so if trying to research that particular machine and were searching for a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" as per the title of the ebay listing I doubt you would be on the correct path. This was the purpose of my statement, which is irrespective of whether the two companies had a relationship or change of name etc. Someone may want to try and find more info on what the saw's missing table may have been like on the original, or other details such as production date.

    Have you seen "Thomas McPherson" badged machines in a McPherson's catalog? If so I stand corrected.




    Yes the Thomas McPherson catalogue referred to in the linked thread is a said to be a 1964…….Was McPherson's not also trading at the same time under their own name? Yes that quite possibly could be where I had the idea placed in my mind. I did feel it may have come from Matty (L.SBarker -forum name). I'm not sure now. Maybe Graeme can recollect where he read the history and clear that part of the debate from that thread.




    So I do still feel that my statement is true.


    Originally Posted by DSEL74
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.




    This doesn't preclude any history between the two companies and I appreciate your desire to keep any future historians from being disseminated misleading internet based data. Which in someway is what I was doing by pointing out that THIS SPECIFIC saw is wrongly titled as a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" when it is clearly badged as a Thomas McPherson. Therefore would be found in a Thomas McPherson catalogue as it was sold by Thomas McPherson.


    Further more this whole discussion will be here for the record not just my original post should others still disagree.






    I don't think your sentiment has come across wrong and I hope neither has mine. In fact I appreciate your passion for old machines and their history.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  10. #144
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    Hi Camo and Dale,

    Just had a quick look on Trove and the full set of company records for McPhersons Limited are stored in the University of Melbourne Archives. All 62 boxes!
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/1697808...onId=185040074

    It also includes all the records for associated and subsidiary companies including Thomas McPherson and Sons. It says that access is open, so there is plenty of study material there.
    With all the board minutes there, you should also be able to determine the relationship with LS Barker too!

    The collection consists of management records including certificates of incorporation and firm registration 1903-1937, board minutes and chairman’s notes 1941-1969, overseas reports 1938-1981, Memorandums and Articles of Association 1913-1967, pension fund minutes 1929-1967 and some correspondence; accounts and capital structure records 1894-1987; records relating to staff including staff lists and records books 1912-1967, employee handbooks c.1949-c.1976, some staff letters 1929 and staff social materials 1928-1959; production and stock records 1893-1982 including patent and trademark registration documents, stock lists and notebooks, machinery register, machinery instruction booklets, correspondence and administrative files; plant and property records 1901-1979 relating to property owned, building developments and openings; internal publications 1899-1986 including sales catalogues, brochures, newsletters and annual reports; external catalogues and brochures 1892- 1963; press cuttings, promotional materials and award medals 1917-1987; company photographs c.1910-1981 and some personal household records 1928-1976 belonging to Ethel McPherson, wife of William Edward. The collection also contains materials of associated and subsidiary companies 1900-1980, including ACME Bolt and Nut Co, Patience and Nicholson Ltd, Hedges and Bell Limited, Thomas McPherson and Son (Sydney based company), AJAX GKN Limited, AJAX Nettlefolds Pty Limited, Wiltshire File Company Proprietary Limited, and McPherson’s Research and Development Pty Ltd. These materials consist of account records, memorandums, board minutes, administration files and some photographs. The original order of the collection has not survived. Upon deposit in 1987, materials were grouped according to subject areas and business functions.

  11. #145
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    The Obituary for Hunter McPherson appears in the SMH on 12 July 1932.
    He is the brother of the head of McPhersons Limited.
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...&searchLimits=

    OBITUARY.
    MR. HUNTER McPHERSON.
    Mr. Hunter McPherson, head of Messrs.
    Thomas McPherson and Son, hardware merchants, and chairman of directors of the Port Jackson and Manly Steamship Company, Ltd. died at his home at Ashfield, on Sunday night, aged 80 years. His father was a former Mayor of Melbourne, and a younger brother, Sir William McPherson, was Premier of Victoria.
    Mr McPherson was born in Dundee, Scotland, and arrived in Victoria with his parents as a child. He was apprenticed to Messrs. R. Fulton and Co., engineers of Melbourne, and subsequently visited Britain to gain experience.
    He then spent some time in the Melbourne business, and in 1881 established in Sydney a branch of Thomas McPherson and Son, in Kent-street. Until within a few weeks of his death he retained an active interest in the business, and in the affairs of the Port Jackson and Manly Company, and of the Equitable Permanent Building Society, of which he was chairman of directors. He became a director of the Port Jackson Company in 1900, and chairman in 1913. For many years he was a trustee of the City Night Refuge and Soup Kitchen.
    From 1887 to 1902 he resided at Kogarah, and was Mayor for six terms, during which the Woronora Cemetery was opened, and he remained a trustee until his death.
    In 1881 Mr. McPherson married a daughter of the late Mr. Wm. Bates, M.L.C., of Victoria.
    He is survived by Mrs. McPherson, three sons, and six daughters. His eldest son, Major Thomas McPherson, was killed at Gallipoli in 1915.


    It mentioned in the various biographies that McPhersons liked to separate the manufacturing and merchant businesses.
    From what I can find, Hunter set up as the Sydney sales arm of the business.
    This was branded Thomas McPherson and Sons. There was a retail presence in Melbourne as well.

    Here is a link to an ad for the Melbourne office from 1908:
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...&searchLimits=

    Thomas McPherson and Son.
    Attention is directed to the advertisement of Thomas McPherson and
    Son, machinery merchants and engineers' furnishers, 582-588 Collins-street.
    In their showrooms are represented a great variety of engineers' machine
    tools, such as lathes, drilling machines, etc. Wood-working machinery is also
    largely stocked. There is, as well, a special department dealing with tools
    for engineers, carpenters, blacksmiths, plumbers and farmers. This department should be of special interest to mechanics and others who are desirous of being well equipped with modern and improved tools of trade.
    Messrs. McPherson and Son have just issued a 148-page priced catalogue, dealing largely not only with the class of tools mentioned above, but
    many accessories incidental to the use of steam, such as steam brasswork,
    engine-packing, belting, etc. The catalogue is very complete, and will be
    sent to anyone post free on request; it is well worth the asking for.
    Messrs. McPherson are sole Victorian agents for the well-known firm of
    Ruston, Proctor and Co., Lincoln, England, makers of portable and traction
    engines, thrashing machines, centrifugal pumps, etc.
    Visitors from the country who are in any way interested in anything appertaining to machinery or tools would-do well to pay a visit to Messrs. McPherson's showrooms before leaving town.

  12. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiroller View Post
    The Obituary for Hunter McPherson appears in the SMH on 12 July 1932.
    He is the brother of the head of McPhersons Limited.
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...&searchLimits=

    OBITUARY.
    MR. HUNTER McPHERSON.
    Mr. Hunter McPherson, head of Messrs.
    Thomas McPherson and Son, hardware merchants, and chairman of directors of the Port Jackson and Manly Steamship Company, Ltd. died at his home at Ashfield, on Sunday night, aged 80 years. His father was a former Mayor of Melbourne, and a younger brother, Sir William McPherson, was Premier of Victoria.
    Mr McPherson was born in Dundee, Scotland, and arrived in Victoria with his parents as a child. He was apprenticed to Messrs. R. Fulton and Co., engineers of Melbourne, and subsequently visited Britain to gain experience.
    He then spent some time in the Melbourne business, and in 1881 established in Sydney a branch of Thomas McPherson and Son, in Kent-street. Until within a few weeks of his death he retained an active interest in the business, and in the affairs of the Port Jackson and Manly Company, and of the Equitable Permanent Building Society, of which he was chairman of directors. He became a director of the Port Jackson Company in 1900, and chairman in 1913. For many years he was a trustee of the City Night Refuge and Soup Kitchen.
    From 1887 to 1902 he resided at Kogarah, and was Mayor for six terms, during which the Woronora Cemetery was opened, and he remained a trustee until his death.
    In 1881 Mr. McPherson married a daughter of the late Mr. Wm. Bates, M.L.C., of Victoria.
    He is survived by Mrs. McPherson, three sons, and six daughters. His eldest son, Major Thomas McPherson, was killed at Gallipoli in 1915.


    It mentioned in the various biographies that McPhersons liked to separate the manufacturing and merchant businesses.
    From what I can find, Hunter set up as the Sydney sales arm of the business.
    This was branded Thomas McPherson and Sons. There was a retail presence in Melbourne as well.

    Here is a link to an ad for the Melbourne office from 1908:
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...&searchLimits=

    Thomas McPherson and Son.
    Attention is directed to the advertisement of Thomas McPherson and
    Son, machinery merchants and engineers' furnishers, 582-588 Collins-street.
    In their showrooms are represented a great variety of engineers' machine
    tools, such as lathes, drilling machines, etc. Wood-working machinery is also
    largely stocked. There is, as well, a special department dealing with tools
    for engineers, carpenters, blacksmiths, plumbers and farmers. This department should be of special interest to mechanics and others who are desirous of being well equipped with modern and improved tools of trade.
    Messrs. McPherson and Son have just issued a 148-page priced catalogue, dealing largely not only with the class of tools mentioned above, but
    many accessories incidental to the use of steam, such as steam brasswork,
    engine-packing, belting, etc. The catalogue is very complete, and will be
    sent to anyone post free on request; it is well worth the asking for.
    Messrs. McPherson are sole Victorian agents for the well-known firm of
    Ruston, Proctor and Co., Lincoln, England, makers of portable and traction
    engines, thrashing machines, centrifugal pumps, etc.
    Visitors from the country who are in any way interested in anything appertaining to machinery or tools would-do well to pay a visit to Messrs. McPherson's showrooms before leaving town.
    Hey that's great stuff, I am actually in the process of finishing a post, which should also help. I am just loading photos etc

    Cheers,

    Camo

  13. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Not to be argumentative but the item in question is badged as a Thomas McPherson, not McPherson so if trying to research that particular machine and were searching for a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" as per the title of the ebay listing I doubt you would be on the correct path. This was the purpose of my statement, which is irrespective of whether the two companies had a relationship or change of name etc. Someone may want to try and find more info on what the saw's missing table may have been like on the original, or other details such as production date.

    Have you seen "Thomas McPherson" badged machines in a McPherson's catalog? If so I stand corrected.




    Yes the Thomas McPherson catalogue referred to in the linked thread is a said to be a 1964…….Was McPherson's not also trading at the same time under their own name? Yes that quite possibly could be where I had the idea placed in my mind. I did feel it may have come from Matty (L.SBarker -forum name). I'm not sure now. Maybe Graeme can recollect where he read the history and clear that part of the debate from that thread.




    So I do still feel that my statement is true.


    Originally Posted by DSEL74
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.




    This doesn't preclude any history between the two companies and I appreciate your desire to keep any future historians from being disseminated misleading internet based data. Which in someway is what I was doing by pointing out that THIS SPECIFIC saw is wrongly titled as a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" when it is clearly badged as a Thomas McPherson. Therefore would be found in a Thomas McPherson catalogue as it was sold by Thomas McPherson.


    Further more this whole discussion will be here for the record not just my original post should others still disagree.






    I don't think your sentiment has come across wrong and I hope neither has mine. In fact I appreciate your passion for old machines and their history.
    Dale,

    You know when you see a shirt with a loose thread and you just have to pull it out, then you start finding all these loose threads, that is how you are making me feel .

    Like you say I am passionate about old machinery and its history, so I'm going to be a bit more blunt in my approach in the hope that you will see what I am getting at. Again at the risk of appearing rude, I am also going to pick apart your last post and try to explain how I would tackle researching this machine in the hope that you might understand how important seemingly unrelated information can be, and how easily you can be sent off track when someone says something that is misleading or just straight out wrong.

    Firstly let me clarify the direction I thought we were sailing in, and why I made the initial cheeky comment about a shirt with loose threads:

    In your first post you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    not a McPherson
    In your second post you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I have both MchPerson's & Thomas McPherson catalogs
    and then finished by saying

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    NO, not 100% sure.
    Which seems to suggest that your intention was in fact to argue that these are two separate companies, based on the fact that you have a Mcpherson's Catalogue and a Thomas McPherson catalogue, but that you admit you are not 100% sure, but you didn't edit your initial post.

    This is what prompted me to give you some more details, which may lead you to realise that it was in fact possible that this band saw was sold by McPherson's in the early days before they incorporated, and that the "Thomas McPherson catalogue" you most likely have is a Thomas McPherson & Son Pty Ltd. Yes there is uncertainty as to how, or if they relate in any way to McPherson's Pty Ltd or McPherson's Ltd, but that this is completely unrelated to this band saw.

    Now your saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    if trying to research that particular machine and were searching for a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" as per the title of the ebay listing I doubt you would be on the correct path. This was the purpose of my statement, which is irrespective of whether the two companies had a relationship or change of name etc.
    So you are saying now it wasn't your intention to suggest that this bandsaw was being sold by a different company than as you say "McPherson we are more familiar with". I guess regardless of what you intended to say, take a close look at the words you have used and at best your initial statement should be amended for clarification, or worst case you are changing your own definition of what you said in the first post on the fly to suit you.

    As you said you were going to keep the first post as it was, I did a bit more research today to try to answer the question of if this saw was sold by Mcpherson's prior to them incorporating. As you brought up Matty (L.S. Barker1970) as a possible expert (and I agree he is definitely very knowledgeable), I decided to have a look and see what he has written in the past on the subject. With my research hat on, I found a lot, and I will put the bulk of the detail at the end in a P.S. otherwise this post is going to be very hard to read, but I think this post gives us the answer:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...45#post1399245

    It's a good read, but these are the relevant points:

    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.Barker1970 View Post
    By 1860, McPherson's business had evolved into a general hardware wholesaler and retailer. In that year, McPherson renamed his business as Thomas McPherson & Sons.
    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.Barker1970 View Post
    The company marked this change by reincorporating in 1913 as a proprietary company, McPherson's Pty. Ltd.
    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.Barker1970 View Post
    On 5 December 1944 McPherson's converted to a public company, McPherson's Ltd
    So if you recognise the bandsaw as falling within the years of 1860 and 1913 then I think it is safe to say that based on the current evidence, this bandsaw is an "Antique McPherson woodworking bandsaw".

    Let me now break down your latest post and try to give you some responses:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Not to be argumentative but the item in question is badged as a Thomas McPherson, not McPherson so if trying to research that particular machine and were searching for a "antique Mc pherson woodworking bandsaw" as per the title of the ebay listing I doubt you would be on the correct path.
    I disagree. Given this machine was sold through Thomas McPherson and Son (the same company that changed their name to McPherson's Pty Ltd), then you would be on the correct path. and in fact that is where I would start. I would pull out my McPherson's catalogue, and I would look for the bandsaws, then I would look for signs that these saws were related. You see machines tend to evolve over time, slight improvements, rarely did the whole machine change with the next model, and machines develop a bit of a signature to them that's why you see posts where someone is trying to identify a machine, and people will say it looks like a.... Even things like hand wheels, and knobs can be a clue

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Someone may want to try and find more info on what the saw's missing table may have been like on the original, or other details such as production date.
    As I said above, if your lucky and you don't have a catalogue with the exact model in it, but perhaps you have a picture of an earlier model and a picture of a later model, and the tables are the same, then this is a potential clue that the table did not change on the model machine that you have. As far as production date goes, our research is now pointing to this saw being sold between 1860 and 1913.

    Dale, do you see now how someone searching for clues, could stumble across your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.
    and assume you mean, early machines with a Thomas McPherson & Son badge are made by a different company than McPherson's Pty Ltd who later became McPherson's Ltd. Based on the definitive nature of your response, they may even mistake you for an expert on the subject. If they did, they would stop looking down the path of McPherson's Ltd history, not bother to open or find a McPherson's catalogue, etc, etc. All that we have discovered about this machine that I have listed above is now not available to that person (unless they read on to this post, or happen to find something else that points them back in the right direction).

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Have you seen "Thomas McPherson" badged machines in a McPherson's catalog? If so I stand corrected.
    As my earliest McPherson's catalogue is 1923, which is about 10 years after they incorporated, no I have not, but as the 1910 Thomas McPherson & Son catalogue is a McPherson's catalogue, then I am guessing that if I had that catalogue I would have seen a "Thomas McPherson" badged Machine in a McPherson's catalogue. Does that count?? Do you stand corrected??

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Yes the Thomas McPherson catalogue referred to in the linked thread is a said to be a 1964…….Was McPherson's not also trading at the same time under their own name?
    I would certainly be more interested in working out if there is a connection between Thomas McPherson & Son Pty Ltd and McPherson's Ltd, but again I think this is a completely unrelated topic to this band saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I did feel it may have come from Matty (L.SBarker -forum name). I'm not sure now.
    Of cause it's best to find the original source and supply a link if you can. The only problem is that if you just bring someone into the argument without finding there quote you may be wrong and then make it look like they were the cause, but at least you have mentioned that you were not sure now.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Maybe Graeme can recollect where he read the history and clear that part of the debate from that thread.
    It is a shame he couldn't remember, hopefully if he sees this it will jog his memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    So I do still feel that my statement is true.
    How about now?? Please tell me that I have at least convinced you that the way you have worded your initial post could easily be seen as you saying early machines with a Thomas McPherson's and Son badge, were not sold by the same company that is now McPherson's Ltd, which based on the research I have now done, I am fairly confident is false.

    Researching can be an absolute nightmare, and I have had my fair share of trying to determine which direction to go because someone has made a statement, given no evidence to back it up and uses words like "not", "is", "isn't" instead of "I think", "I thought I read somewhere".

    The only reason I would say just leave the initial post as it is, is if I thought people always read the posts around the one they think has the answer they are looking for. I think this is what you were suggesting when you wrote this:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Further more this whole discussion will be here for the record not just my original post should others still disagree.
    well I think this often doesn't happen, probably because people are time poor. Let me show you an example of where this may have happened, and it's actually somewhat funny as it brings us full circle.

    Have a look at this post:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...ersons+bandsaw

    Look at the second picture on the first post by scrounger, does it look familiar.....well it should as it is the same bandsaw we are discussing now (note that it is the same picture as in the one on the current eBay listing).

    Now look at this reply by Matty:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...16#post1618516

    Matty had the answers for us all along, we just needed to pay attention. So what is my excuse for not paying attention to what Matty wrote about this saw last year? Well I'm going to go with I must have missed that post . Dale, you can't use that excuse, look you posted in this thread :

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...01#post1667901

    Dale, hopefully I have been blunt enough to get my point across, but not so blunt that you feel like I have tried to completely beat you up. Don't get me wrong though, if I have put too many smiley faces in the post and have left people thinking I am cool with people just floating around the forum, making bold statements when your really not sure, and supplying no evidence to back it up, then tell me and I will add some angry faces. The Antiques sub forum has been a bit quiet lately, but I hope that in the future it will pick back up. What I don't want to see is the work done by people to research information and share on this sub forum spoiled because people can't trust that were doing more than just making off the cuff remarks that appear on the surface to have substance, but in the end just don't hold water. If you think I have been too harsh, then I apologise, and you can blame it on the last time I spent far too long following what I thought was a lead, that just ended up being one of those definitive statements that someone made when what they really should have said "I think....., I am sure I read it it somewhere".

    Cheers,

    Camo

    P.S. Now for some of the information I managed to get a hold of.

    Firstly some great images of some Thomas McPherson and Son machine badges. I believe Matty sent these to me at some stage





    Note the two addresses I mentioned in my previous post which match the McPherson's Pty Ltd address



    A McPherson's Pty Ltd badge

    Some other links that refer to the incorporation of the company and name change or lists Thomas McPherson & Son and relates it back in some way to the company that is now called McPherson's Ltd:

    http://trove.nla.gov.au/people/1477091?c=people

    http://www.gabr.net.au/biogs/ABE0196b.htm

    http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM00524b.htm

    http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/...son-s-Ltd.html



    a sign for sale (if you have $300 burning a hole in your pocket)

    http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Hobbie...dNumber=97M36L

  14. #148
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    Dec 2007
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    I will delete the previous post that your unhappy with as it seems I would not be able to reword it to suit. You have in my opinion misconstrued each and every post I have made in this thread which can be seen by the way you have chosen to make comment on my comments which in a way that any politician or lawyer would be proud trying to twist them and adding your own bend to them. I have not changed my intention or position in any of my comments, maybe it is true I am no wordsmith which has allowed you to try and manipulate what was actually intended. it is unfair to fragment my posts and then say what My intention is, based on your agenda. As suggested by you I did not change direction, try to cover up my tracks or anything else
    you are changing your own definition of what you said in the first post on the fly to suit you.
    What I have said has been with my best intention to help.

    There has been a wealth of information posted up as a result and sometimes a small clue can get you a long way. Just as some may not read past a single post it goes both ways.

    Whether your attacking me personally or are just pushing your research point you have made some bold statements and accusations as to the intention behind what I am posting which are skewed through your own perception rather than what was actually being said. I will now avoid posting further in this section as I am obviously not adequately able to eloquently word my post in a way to convey the desired information.





    *Actually I can't seem to delete the previous post, so the point in moot Unless one of the Mods wants to do it.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  15. #149
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    Newcastle NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I will delete the previous post that your unhappy with as it seems I would not be able to reword it to suit. You have in my opinion misconstrued each and every post I have made in this thread which can be seen by the way you have chosen to make comment on my comments which in a way that any politician or lawyer would be proud trying to twist them and adding your own bend to them. I have not changed my intention or position in any of my comments, maybe it is true I am no wordsmith which has allowed you to try and manipulate what was actually intended. it is unfair to fragment my posts and then say what My intention is, based on your agenda. As suggested by you I did not change direction, try to cover up my tracks or anything else What I have said has been with my best intention to help.

    There has been a wealth of information posted up as a result and sometimes a small clue can get you a long way. Just as some may not read past a single post it goes both ways.

    Whether your attacking me personally or are just pushing your research point you have made some bold statements and accusations as to the intention behind what I am posting which are skewed through your own perception rather than what was actually being said. I will now avoid posting further in this section as I am obviously not adequately able to eloquently word my post in a way to convey the desired information.





    *Actually I can't seem to delete the previous post, so the point in moot Unless one of the Mods wants to do it.
    Dale,

    I am honestly not sure what to say. I really tried with every fibre of my being to step into this as politically correct as possible. Have I pushed too far, well obviously I have, but hopefully when the dust settles, you will look at my original 2 posts and see my restraint.

    What I actually said was:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    I guess regardless of what you intended to say, take a close look at the words you have used and at best your initial statement should be amended for clarification, or worst case you are changing your own definition of what you said in the first post on the fly to suit you.
    so I have at least allowed for two possibilities, but if I do lay my cards on the table, then I have to be honest and say that wile I was writing this post, I certainly was questioning your motives.

    I have asked several people over the last few days to read your first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    That is a Thomas McPherson saw by the way not a McPherson we are more familiar with.
    and when asked what you are saying, they have all taken the same meaning out of it as I have, which is really bad, because if they were researching the topic, read your post, and took it as an answer, they would be directed down the wrong path. Eventually they may find their way back, and based on my own personal experience with this, they will likely either curse you for this statement, or worse still begin to question the credibility of this forum.

    Do I want you to stop posting....NO, all I wanted was for you to change the wording of your initial post. I tried to achieve this by hinting at it with a question:

    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    Are you sure it is a different company??
    You admitted you were not 100% sure and yet the initial post did not get amended.

    I then tried to offer you some facts that might support my argument, and then I directly asked if you would change it:

    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    Would you perhaps consider changing your initial statement (before your post is locked), obviously they are your words and it is your post, but it might be worth considering.
    and still you didn't change it.

    I agree, that when I have broken down your third post, that I have greatly risked "skewing what you are saying", and I may well be judged for that, but that's the point that I didn't seem to be able to get across, "either your initial statement is false, or the way it is likely to be interpreted is false".

    I wasn't sure how long it was before your initial post would be locked, but based on what you have said, it appears it has been, so if Mods can't or wont act, then it is all for nothing.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  16. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Camo,


    Lets put this simply…..What is the badge on the machine? What was the exact name of the company at the time that exact machine with that badge on it was sold… You seem to forget the context of my post was relating to a particular saw in the post directly above. The statement revolved around the nameplate on the machine. As I see it that machine is a Thomas McPherson machine. This directs people to this fact which would allow them to find a Thomas McPherson catalogue to look in, it will also help to date the period of the machine. It in no ways precludes any other relationship.

    Why did I state not 100% sure because your question was obviously a loaded one, and I felt you were holding back information from that question to bait a response..Looks like you were.

    The fact that you said you were holding back and with each post tried more bluntly and forcefully to get me to change my post is little more than bullying and harassment. I sated my views and my intention simply. I understand the there is a relationship between the company names and that has been revealed along the coarse. The fact that you questioned my motives, says more about your self than it does about me. I acknowledged your point but you refused to accept that I have a different view point with no ulterior motive. It seems that you must win at all costs by your tactics in manipulation of my segmented posts. This borders on trolling. Maybe this is the reason sections of the forum die off, there is less traffic to this section than there used to be.

    I am entitled to my opinion and to express it. This is a FORUM after all. Maybe you should post all the factual data in a wikipedia for researcher where all can be verified and the researchers will not be mislead in any way.

    Because I didn't want this to degrade any further I conceded to delete my post and I will no longer post to this section as I don't need the stress of having my every word scrutinised and twisted. As I said earlier I may not be a good wordsmith nor have to ability to retain all the information and facts I read. But I do always read to the end of a thread etc to get all the info at the time, I'm not silly enough to run off with just one tid bit as fact from one source. I also don't feel I can be blamed if someone else is foolish enough to do so.


    As previously stated I leave the editing, deletion of the earlier post & any subsequent ones in the hands of the mods. I am not interested in participating in any further correspondence on this matter.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

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