Thread: Kenyon Saws

As a new member to the forum I have been following this thread with great interest. I collect British saws and would just like to add a few comments to the discussion. 1) Most of the 19th C London made saws I own have horned handles. 2) The London pattern does descend below the boss. 3) In the early years London made saws were regarded as better quality and it was common for Sheffield makers to stamp London on the saw to suggest it was London made.,
Thanks for a fascinating forum.

Rustyoldiron welcome to the Forums and what a great place to make your entry. Thank you for your observations. Despite starting this thread, the British saws are not my area of expertise. Looking through Barley's book I indeed saw that there is some variability with the positioning of the handle. Much seemed to depend on the "hang" angle. In fact the example I showed earlier is a replica so not truly representative. Perhaps you could show us some examples of your saws if you have the time.

Either way, thanks for your input. It's good to have a man on the spot.

Regards
Paul

Paul

With that photo of Rollie on his bike, I reckon there would have had to be a large recess in the rear guard to accommodate his over size balls
that would be required to do a ride like that.

With regard to the Kenyon saws, they truly are fantastic saws with their wonderful handles.

I only have 3 old English saws with similar London pattern handles, and would like to post
photos of them here just to add some examples for the thread.

Hope they come in the correct order, the first handle is on a Thomas Firth & Sons c. 1860
the middle one is on a Taylor Bros. c.1870 and the last is on a William Ryan c. 1900

Graham.

Thanks Graham.

Even without enlarging the pix I can see the fleck in the Beech handles. I think that timber was used virtually exclusively with British saws. I have a single London pattern saw. I will dig it out and post later.

On the subject of Rollie Free's bravery, I would suggest the only reason for the speedos was to prevent the tackle getting hung up in the back wheel!

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

On the subject of Rollie Free's bravery, I would suggest the only reason for the speedos was to prevent the tackle getting hung up in the back wheel!

Blokes like Rollie were such an inspiration, apart from Russell Quoit do we have any body that we can look up to?

Graham.

Originally Posted by macg

Blokes like Rollie were such an inspiration, apart from Russell Quoit do we have any body that we can look up to?

Graham.

For a while Australia had a number of world class racers in the GP series. Mick Doohan comes to mind but there were others. Russel Coight was in a class of his own.

Below is my only genuine London pattern handsaw:

P1040035 (Medium).JPGP1040036 (Medium).JPGP1040037 (Medium).JPG

I am pretty certain this was a longer saw that has been cut down. A similarity with the Kenyon saws is the use of a smaller saw screw at the top and only three screws. This saw is stamped Buck and Co and I am reasonably confident that company became Buck and Hickman based in the East end of London by the 1970s. This saw with the split nuts would have been no later than the 1890s. Buck and Hickman were a large hardware wholesaler so I am assuming that Buck & Co were similar. Simon Barley's book seems to say about the same.

Regards
Paul

As Bushmiller requested I would like to add a few photos of my London pattern saws if I can get my upload to work.
First photo is a Beardshaw & son from about 1830.

Next is a Thompson saw of unknown date.

Not sure if this is working so will try again later. Sorry

Thanks Rusty

Venerable saws. Beardshaw is a familiar name. Thompson I had to look up and there were many contenders with that name, most of which emanated from the midlands but also the North and London! It looks like somebody got about a bit! What do you have for dating purposes. Catalogues? In fact Simon Barley says that the catalogues produced by Buck & Co are one of the greatest UK sources for identifying tools.

The Thompson saw looks as though the hardware may be non standard and very improvised, but the Beardshaw looks very original.

Regards
Paul

Another try now Bill Gates has finished updating my pc. Why does he always do it when I am doing something important.
You are right about the Thompson having seen better days. No idea which of the various Thompsons made this.
Now you should see an iron back by W I Horn & Co, a nice brass back by H G Long & Co, a handsaw by Hill late Howel and a Sorby. You should be able to see the base of the handle varies a lot in relation to the bottom of the boss.

The Sorby is not a London pattern of course but I had to throw in a Kangaroo somewhere.

Rustyoldion

thanks for showing us your saws, it's always good to see what others have collected.

One thing I noticed was that on some the heel of the blade was angled or clipped,
am not sure if this was done by maker or owner, but what purpose does it serve??

Graham.

Thanks Graham,
The angled heel is a very good question. There are too many about for it to be anything but a maker feature. The photo attached shows a few on my saws. The little dovetail saw on top is a Howel from C 1800 so this has been a practice for a long time. The purpose is probably no more than decoration like the nib on some handsaws ( whoever came up with the idea that was for clearing sawdust from a blocked kerf apparently hadn't tried it).
I have added a photo showing damage caused by the plate becoming brittle, a problem that has cost me quite a few saw teeth when trying to set them.

Bushmiller mentioned the Buck family and catalogues. I have not seen a Buck catalogue but the Buck and Hickman firm produced very large volumes which are certainly used by collectors on this side of the pond. I have 1923, 1935, 1953 and 1964 versions. Simon Barley does have rather an advantage in that he is a trustee of the Hawley Tool Collection in Sheffield that owns probably the largest collection of tool catalogues anywhere.
Notched heels.JPGBrittle plate damage.JPG

The angled heel being a makers decorative feature makes sense to me,

and in your brittle plate photo, the handle on the top saw is like poetry in motion
with such fine delicate lines.

If ever I get to England, the Hawley Tool Collection is on my list of places to go to.

Graham

Thanks Paul for this great article. As you know I have a sweet spot for Simonds saws, but equally I’ve desired Kenyon saws as well. I too have noticed Wenzloff and Sons are no longer producing these saws, but if I could afford it I would ask them politely to make some. I don’t know why that saw maker from England and the name eludes me charges so much.


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Originally Posted by section1

Thanks Paul for this great article. As you know I have a sweet spot for Simonds saws, but equally I’ve desired Kenyon saws as well. I too have noticed Wenzloff and Sons are no longer producing these saws, but if I could afford it I would ask them politely to make some. I don’t know why that saw maker from England and the name eludes me charges so much.


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section1

Shane and Jacqueline Skelton are truly a one man, one woman show. The Kenyon replicas are only part of their saw range and if the cost of the Kenyon panel saws frightens you, I don't think you should look at the Damascus (back and hardware in Damascus pattern) range or the Mallard range!

Why does he charge those prices? I suppose because he can and because he wants to support his family. I think these saws are as close to hand made as any around. If we spoke to those talented people who at times produce saws (I am thinking of one moderator here) they would tell you the money they charge is not much more than a joke: We just benefit from their passion in producing such items. The reason there are not more "Skeltons" around is that too few people are interested in paying those sorts of prices as you have rightly inferred.

I think there must be some demand as there is a lead time, according to the website, of 10 months.

https://www.skeltonsaws.co.uk/


There is some comparison here with the specialist plane manufacturers. Bridge City has I believe shut up shop as an example of the viability, although he gave it a very good go over many years. Marcou continues to produce planes.

Regards
Paul